Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by OLDBIGHEAD, Mar 12, 2009.
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Fcuk that for a game of soldiers. Heroic. He survived that, just to get done over by the Reds in his own country. Rock hard.
Adds further weight to the premise that the Western allies could not care less about the fate of the Jews.
Easy to say - what would you have done if you had been Churchill?
Probably poured another single malt and got back to worrying about the convoys.
Does not change a fact that many are uncomfortable with - especially the septics - and helps understand how Israel came about.
Hard as fu(k, RIP, you really are a role model.
And that's the rub. No convoys, no UK, no contest.
Glad I didn't have to make the choice either.
True, but what else could we do?
Bomb the camp? Bomb the railway? Drop paras? All suicidal, temporary and would have led to massacres elsewhere.
The interesting point is why so many jews stayed in central Europe leading up to the war, it's not as if there wasn't enough evidence of the atrocities to come.
What secret deals were done? who was involved? why did so many people think they would be safe when they so obviously weren't?
Some people couldn't move for different reasons, but millions could and had the money to do so.
I think this is one of the great unanswered questions of the 20th Century.
I agree on your first point. Theres not a lot that the allies could have done, to be honest.
People stayed because they didn;t know the full extent of the problems. Jews were only taken into concentration camps well after most of these countries had been invaded. People are also fairly reticent to leave their homes. You can see this idea in San Fransisco, where there are millions just waiting for what everyone is calling "the big one". I really don't think it was some bizarre conspiracy.
Jesus Christ, I'm lost for words on how tough that man must have been.
No man with that kind of courage deserves to meet his end the way he did.
Unfortunately, not an isolated incident.
Many former of the AK (Home Army), who fought so valiantly in Warsaw in '44, found themselves on the wrong end of a pitchfork under Soviet rule.
Troublemakers I'm afraid.
Incidently, I found Pawiak prison ruins, Dabrowskiego prison memorial and the Gestapo torture centre the most interesting sites in Warsaw.
The Gestapo thumb screw block is now the Polish Education ministry (True).
What good would bombing the railway line and walls have done? The SS would have had the prisoners out and the lines would have been repaired within hours. The railways, roads and communications in France were extensively bombed before and after D-Day and the Germans were still able to move reinforcements and supplies around relatively easily.
The main reason why the allies were slow to respond to stories of the holocaust was that the concentration camps were close to main supply lines to the eastern front. No one could believe that anyone would be so stupid as to move hundreds of trains full of civilians along to supply lines, just to murder them at the end of it. Also, there was an underlying belief that the Germans were a cultured and intelligent race who were not capable of such crimes. Certainly the British and Canadian troops that liberated Belsen had no idea what was going on until they reached the camp itself.
As for mass escapees from the camps, don't you think that hundreds of people milling about in zebra suits and shaven heads might have been a bit conspicuous?
An amazing story of an amazing man.
No its not, its very well documented if you research it.
As they tried to move to France, UK and particularly the USA they were not allowed in - nobody wanted them. After the fall of France the USA was strongly petititioned to increase its quota allotment but did not.
It could be argued that the west did not know how extreme it was going to get, but others argue that the "final solution" was only arrived at because other increasingly robust efforts to solve the "problem" had caused little or no reaction. IMO the arguement holds water.
London had been warned about what was going on in Poland - and not only by one source.
Jan Karski Orbituary
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