Voluntary tax

This is something i have pondered for a while now and thought that those with a better understanding might find interesting and worthy of discussion.

Would a extra voluntary tax work and help ? I.e , an option to pay an extra say £10-20 a month per person with the spending being divided up between Police , Nhs , Military etc.

Would people take part ? Would it mean more money being squandered ? Would it actually help ?
If the tax they already take was managed (even remotely) well, a society of stakeholders and a robustly enforced immigration system - we'd not need for anything.
 
If the tax they already take was managed (even remotely) well, a society of stakeholders and a robustly enforced immigration system - we'd not need for anything.
I agree , but do you think if we had the extra man power that a voluntary tax might provide then we might actually get results from having more bodies on the beat and policing ports for the literally tons on drugs that must arrive weekly and the stolen vehicles and plant etc that get shipped out?

I would like to think that would be the result and that then it would give the room to look at efficiency and waste in the systems .
 
IF - and its a big IF - additional tax was to be ring fenced for emergency services, the military, then it has legs. If its to go into the pot to be blown on immigrants, foreign aid and diversity you can ram it up your jacksie.
 

4(T)

LE
I've often thought that it would be a smart move by a government to roll up a lot of the spending on woke causes into a voluntary tax fund, and then see if the SJW types are willing to put their money where their shrieky mouths are.

Want government funded diversity workshops? Want state funding for economic migrants? Want to sponsor transgender pottery making and dance in Somalia? Right, here you go - cash in this pot please.

To make it really effective, you could make the list of voluntary donors public domain information. After all, I'm sure all that virtue signalling would be backed up by conspicuous donation.

The beauty of my voluntary woke tax (I really should be PM you know) is that it would target the demographic most able to fund it - the liberal elite who have the spare wealth to spend time fronting vexatious campaigns - as opposed to the silent majority who are too busy working to make ends meet.

Right, next item on my manifesto..
 
Why would it have to go to doleys ? I am talking about a specific tax to go to the Police , Nhs and maybe the military . A contribution that goes to where you want . Would that not be feasible ?
You said in your previous post:
Yes , i expect to be fair you would have to pool all contributions collectively then distribute . Otherwise you would get lower income areas getting even less .
On that basis, you would have no say and no idea where the greater proportion of your contribution is spent. Would you still pay a voluntary tax if you know it will fund things of little interest to you like the example of doley drop in centres?

You have to read what is said in response to what you said. Your argument is drifting somewhat from a voluntary tax to fund (as an example) a police officer in your town to a voluntary tax to be pooled to fund a wide range of causes fairly to a tax that funds multiple but limited and very specific causes.

In a nutshell, a voluntary tax to fund a contributor‘s specifically chosen causes is a non starter. Either a charity type of agency for specific voluntary funding or a compulsory tax for generalised involuntary funding.
 
I agree , but do you think if we had the extra man power that a voluntary tax might provide then we might actually get results from having more bodies on the beat and policing ports for the literally tons on drugs that must arrive weekly and the stolen vehicles and plant etc that get shipped out?

I would like to think that would be the result and that then it would give the room to look at efficiency and waste in the systems .
Waste and inefficiency is well known within the systems already - that's not the issue.

The issue is the political will to take these departments apart and start them from scratch with a completely different culture where there's accountability and risk but reward for a good job well done.

Bring in accountability and risk with the current lot and everything would simply grind to a halt for fear of exposure and they get well paid for screwing things up as it stands.

I think it's a noble idea but for all the wrong reasons.
 
You said in your previous post:


On that basis, you would have no say and no idea where the greater proportion of your contribution is spent. Would you still pay a voluntary tax if you know it will fund things of little interest to you like the example of doley drop in centres?

You have to read what is said in response to what you said. Your argument is drifting somewhat from a voluntary tax to fund (as an example) a police officer in your town to a voluntary tax to be pooled to fund a wide range of causes fairly to a tax that funds multiple but limited and very specific causes.

In a nutshell, a voluntary tax to fund a contributor‘s specifically chosen causes is a non starter. Either a charity type of agency for specific voluntary funding or a compulsory tax for generalised involuntary funding.
No , i am saying for example you contribute say £20 a month split between police ,nhs and forces and it goes in one big pot divided three ways to be distributed nationwide . The reason i mentioned lower incomed areas is that if it was based on being re-spent locally then i guess lower income areas would be worse off as maybe less people in that area would contribute due to not having the spare money .

I have not said anything about i being for anything other than police , nhs and military .
 

Chef

LE
In answer to your question.

No it won't go to the military/police/NHS. A few years ago someone demanded that the revenue guaranteed that none of their tax would be spent on nukes and other bangy stuff. they received a letter back saying that the tax office didn't do that sort of thing, it all got distributed from a central pot.

My letter requiring my taxes went on 7.62 and neutron bombs (It was a long time ago) went into the bin. Grr:mad:
 
IF - and its a big IF - additional tax was to be ring fenced for emergency services, the military, then it has legs. If its to go into the pot to be blown on immigrants, foreign aid and diversity you can ram it up your jacksie.
Look at National Insurance, there must still be people who think it all gets spent on the NHS
 
Having looked at the amount of paid for benefits I have lost between the age of 50 and when I finally get my paid for retirement pension, anything voluntary can fro.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
on the assumption that things stayed the same after the Blair studies I would say what is really needed is effective cost control and value for money.

the NHS does not spend very well, nor do education or the police.

every time they increase budgets for equipment they seem to think that means the managers must need to be paid more to reflect the extra responsiblity.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
the foreign aid budget needs to be spent on the military and the UK police.

the military to distribute and see genuine foreign aid projects are done correctly.

the police because of the sheer number of illegal migrants in the UK and the crimes many of them commit.

I fail to see why we cannot use the military more in a day to day capacity other than the fact we have such a pitiful number of them now.
 
The cynic in me thinks that any organisation receiving such a voluntary tax would be the first to be visited for savings/reduction when allocation of funding from the normal tax pot.
 
According to the ONS statistics published in December, in 2017/18 the government received total of £183 billion in income taxes (PAYE and Self-Assessment) and £133 billion in national insurance contributions. These taxes made up over 40% of the £754 billion total current receipts in 2017/18. Spending, known as total managed expenditure, in 2017/18 was £795 billion. The difference between these two numbers is public sector net borrowing (excluding public sector banks) – commonly known as the deficit. This was £41 billion in 2017/18.
Gov website.

How much of a hole in the £41bn would this tax make?
Simple answer is the figure was around 35 Bn in uncollected taxes in my day so effectively it's risen by 6 billion. We don't need to raise more tax, we need to collect what's owed and that costs money so it won't be collected. That means that as an when the economy gets cracking again taxes may rise. But it'll be mainly collected on the PAYE side rather than the Self assessment. The money gets wasted in court cases and tribunals taken by the Tax inspectors.
 
I've often thought that it would be a smart move by a government to roll up a lot of the spending on woke causes into a voluntary tax fund, and then see if the SJW types are willing to put their money where their shrieky mouths are.

Want government funded diversity workshops? Want state funding for economic migrants? Want to sponsor transgender pottery making and dance in Somalia? Right, here you go - cash in this pot please.

To make it really effective, you could make the list of voluntary donors public domain information. After all, I'm sure all that virtue signalling would be backed up by conspicuous donation.

The beauty of my voluntary woke tax (I really should be PM you know) is that it would target the demographic most able to fund it - the liberal elite who have the spare wealth to spend time fronting vexatious campaigns - as opposed to the silent majority who are too busy working to make ends meet.

Right, next item on my manifesto..

add in a demonstration tax, organisers of protests can pay for it, also have a riot deposit.
 
According to the ONS statistics published in December, in 2017/18 the government received total of £183 billion in income taxes (PAYE and Self-Assessment) and £133 billion in national insurance contributions. These taxes made up over 40% of the £754 billion total current receipts in 2017/18. Spending, known as total managed expenditure, in 2017/18 was £795 billion. The difference between these two numbers is public sector net borrowing (excluding public sector banks) – commonly known as the deficit. This was £41 billion in 2017/18.
Gov website.

How much of a hole in the £41bn would this tax make?
Simple answer is the figure was around 35 Bn in uncollected taxes in my day so effectively it's risen by 6 billion. We don't need to raise more tax, we need to collect what's owed and that costs money so it won't be collected. That means that as an when the economy gets cracking again taxes may rise. But it'll be mainly collected on the PAYE side rather than the Self assessment. The money gets wasted in court cases and tribunals taken by the Tax inspectors.
 
Simple answer is the figure was around 35 Bn in uncollected taxes in my day so effectively it's risen by 6 billion. We don't need to raise more tax, we need to collect what's owed and that costs money so it won't be collected. That means that as an when the economy gets cracking again taxes may rise. But it'll be mainly collected on the PAYE side rather than the Self assessment. The money gets wasted in court cases and tribunals taken by the Tax inspectors.

All HMRC has to do is 'accidentally' charge someone say 40k more than they actually earned in a year, threaten to have their house repossessed if they don't pay up. Spend months going through this as the DS solution is to pay up first then we can look into it.
When asked where the figure comes from, the answer is 'computer says you owe it from your self assessment (which went from self assessment says you owe nothing, to £600, to £900, then into the thousands), so you have to pay or get more fines for late payment'

Once HMRC own every self employed persons house then can screw us over even more.
 
Why would it have to go to doleys ? I am talking about a specific tax to go to the Police , Nhs and maybe the military . A contribution that goes to where you want . Would that not be feasible ?
A bit like the Road Fund Licence then? ;-)
 

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