Voluntary Cartridge Retention Procedure.

#1
I just got a letter from the local plod firearms licensing office, with a bunch of plastic bags, requesting me to take samples of my used carts and cases from each of my gats 'to retain by the licence holder in a safe location other than my gun cabinet' - to hand to them in if my guns get robbed and get used in crime, to help with any future forensic inquirey.
OK, I can see how it may help in solving crime, but is it another soon to be compusary bollocks and f**k-a-bout our sport dont need?
I'm with GMP, anyone else got this request????
 
#2
Never heard of that one ,pass it to BASC or Sportsman Assoc see what they think.
 
#3
Seems a fairly sensible idea to me.

Gun gets nicked, the little bastard who nicks it and uses it to rob Post Office may leave dna at both sites.

Thus making it easier to proove the bigger crime.
 
#4
All firearms here are tested on purchase with bullets and cases retained at the Forensic Science Lab,makes sense to me as if any legal firearms are used in crime they can be traced.
 
#5
Point taken, Mr RUCFOREVER, but this is NOT Northern Ireland.

Are you unaware that it is YOU who will be providing the initial DNA sample?

Sounds to me like too much Big Brother-ing, especially in view of the lack of evidence that any 6.5, 7mm, or 7.5mm classic hunting and military rifles are being used in recent crime...

tac, agin it.
 
#6
Point taken, Mr RUCFOREVER, but this is NOT Northern Ireland.

Are you unaware that it is YOU who will be providing the initial DNA sample?

Sounds to me like Big Brother-ing.

tac, agin it.
I'm all in favour of civil liberties but I would bet that most guns are stolen by people who know the gun owner and are therefore aware that they keep weapons in the house.

Therefore, if your gun is nicked and used in a crime, and your next door neighbour has a lot of form, I would say that there is a strong possibility they are linked to the crime. It might help the coppers to get an armed and dangerous knacker behind bars faster.

PS I reckon that there is prob' as much gun crime in Greater Manc' than there is in NI these days.
 
#7
I just got a letter from the local plod firearms licensing office, with a bunch of plastic bags, requesting me to take samples of my used carts and cases from each of my gats 'to retain by the licence holder in a safe location other than my gun cabinet' - to hand to them in if my guns get robbed and get used in crime, to help with any future forensic inquirey.
OK, I can see how it may help in solving crime, but is it another soon to be compusary bollocks and f**k-a-bout our sport dont need?
I'm with GMP, anyone else got this request????
I can see the value of this, however what hacks me off is the cack handed way in which this has been done..

It's not IMHO, the job of individual force licencing teams to come up with a scheme like this and just carry it out. This should have been discussed and agreed with the representatives of the shooting orgnaisations and been introduced nationally as an example of mutual respect and cooperation..

I'm also not that sure it holds water forensically - probably too many loose links in the trail of evidence to stand up in court. This smacks of an FIO having a "good idea" and folk just not properly working through the practical and political implications...
 
#8
Sounds like a good idea to someone who either doesn't know anything about firearms crime or someone working for plod who has come up with an idea to impress their boss with.

It's utter bollocks, just another box to tick to say 'look, we are doing something about gun crime'.
 
#9
Sounds like a good idea to someone who either doesn't know anything about firearms crime or someone working for plod who has come up with an idea to impress their boss with.

It's utter bollocks, just another box to tick to say 'look, we are doing something about gun crime'.
I reckon there would be a few lads in GMP who know a fair bit about gun crime, wouldn't you?
 
#11
Just wait for the feature creep, in the last period you purchased 5,000 rounds but we have only received 4,997 spent cases, due to your inability to account for these potentially lethal ammunition components we shall be revoking your firearms certificate immediately.

A council firearms removal operative will visit you shortly to remove your weapons to a safe place.

Cynical, moi?
 
#12
Seems a fairly sensible idea to me.
The fundamental problem with anything suggested by the police however is that they have so alienated the shooting fraternity over the years that we not just do not trust them to treat us fairly and so many of us are concerned that what is today voluntary in a few years time "has worked so well" it becomes compulsory.
 
#15
Someone with the correct authority :)
If you are a member of a club and have pistol on your certificate, like me :) The rounds are loaded and fired at the FSL, so DNA has nothing to do with it, IMHO it is a very sensible method of recording firearms. Firearms crime is virtually nonexistent here, excluding paramilitary.
 
#18
Firearms crime is virtually nonexistent here, excluding paramilitary.
So let me get this straight. Apart from the civil war, oh sorry 'troubles' there has been little gun crime. Well I suppose that does follow the US trend where states with liberal gun law have little gun crime and those with strict law are the murder the capitols of America. N.B. grand generalisations ahoy.
 
#19
I can't see what the problem is.

They've asked you to retain samples of a fired round and a used case to enable some forensic bod with a comparison microscope to match it with samples they might recover from a crime. DrStealth didn't mention DNA in the original post. If they've asked nicely and said please, the why would that be a problem? If it is a problem for you, just don't do it. If they haven't said please, then they have poor manners and need their ankles slapped.

They've probably asked you to keep it separate from the gun safe in anticipation of finding you face down in the garage with your gun safe door swinging in the breeze.

Some countries have such samples retained by the police, in case the FAC holder goes rogue (has someone said that). I'd expect that to be the next Home Office imposition.
 
#20
Speaking as a non-shooter, unless HM was lending gats and rounds, I am always leery of ANY 'request' by the authorities for ANYTHING above and beyond the legal requirements. I would imagine that a set of cases from two years ago would be worthless as far as forensics go, even though I watch some of the CSI documentaries, their worth in court is equally debatable.

As with the seatbelt/helmet laws, these things creep in on the grounds of 'the majority already do' and as has been said, what happens in 2112 when you can't account fro ALL the cases from a gat you sold in 2019?

Never give authorities power to intrude in your life, no matter how 'reasonable' it seems when asked for.
 

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