VM basic shortened? WTF!!!

#1
Heard a nasty rumour that the VM basic course is being shortened to 3 months. 8O . And that we will have to teach the class 3s how to VM when they arrive at units as they will only get taught the basics at BordoM. Do we not have enough on our plates as it is? I struggle to find the time of day to wipe my own a*se. Guys are coming out with less knowledge than a kwik fit tyre fitter at the mo. (No offence if you have just left BordoM but its true) some of the tool and part descriptions i have heard in the last 2 years have been beyond shocking. If Cl 3's were tought correctly and not allowed to drift through BordoM to give VT their chance to hit their quota to keep their contract, I think we would all be better off and not struggling to get work done. Am i waffling? Or does anyone else feel the same? (Across all trades)

Whinge complete feel much better,
Out. :evil:
 
#2
I've heard its down to cash, there are to many recruits for the present Class 3 Cse spaces so they have had to go for this option as they couldn't afford to do anything else. Although led to believe that the change will include them having to go back to Bordon for a Class 2 Cse, not convinced that will make our lives any better when most units have little or no Class 1 manpower to supervise the present pi** poor Class 3's.
 
#3
So how long is the present Basic Class 3 VM's Course. Remembered when men at SEME on thier Basic Course used to undertake ,as they completed what we now term Modules,some major repair jobs on other students cars.
 
#4
Greenbag, thats the impression i got after a 5 min chat with a high up the foodchain bloke last week, 6.5 mil to fund 8 mil of trg WTF
 
#5
This is a concern I've had for a while, after finding out that VMA basic students aren't being taught CVR(T) or 430. What exactly is being taught at SEME?
 
#6
Yea, have a whinge, change the world, or as not maybe.
 
#7
This is a sorry state of affairs if this is really the case!!I am more than worried about the standard of training being received.
Crows seem to arrive from bordom and 6 months later expect their class 2.The book that has to be filled out for it is neigh on impossible to complete in reality, so you can only asses them on the parts relevant to your unit, Eng units probably have best opertunity due to the wide and diverse range of kit they hold, but what if its a RMP detatchment???
I recently sat questioning one young lad trying to get his class 2(He felt disgruntled that he had done 9 months and was still class3!!)When I asked him the difference between a CI and a SI engine I got a blank stare, took him to petty air compressor , pointed at spark plug and asked again , and what type of engine was this..........................MORE BLANK STARE!!!!!
WHAT THE F$$$CK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO???
 
#8
TRAZTAZ said:
This is a sorry state of affairs if this is really the case!!I am more than worried about the standard of training being received.
Crows seem to arrive from bordom and 6 months later expect their class 2.The book that has to be filled out for it is neigh on impossible to complete in reality, so you can only asses them on the parts relevant to your unit, Eng units probably have best opertunity due to the wide and diverse range of kit they hold, but what if its a RMP detatchment???
I recently sat questioning one young lad trying to get his class 2(He felt disgruntled that he had done 9 months and was still class3!!)When I asked him the difference between a CI and a SI engine I got a blank stare, took him to petty air compressor , pointed at spark plug and asked again , and what type of engine was this..........................MORE BLANK STARE!!!!!
WHAT THE F$$$CK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO???
hmmmm know what you mean

ps your name is not like your dogs name is it?
 
#9
Guys, nothing is definite yet. The course lengths are being looked at, but nothing has happened yet. It's a case of wait out for the time being.
 
#10
Here we go again you'll say, it's the old farts. When I did my class 3 at Taunton we took 16 weeks IIRC and went to units as green as grass, lots of blokes then took up to 3 or 4 years to get on a class 2 because of work commitments (NS had just finished and we were so shorthanded you wouldn't believe).

The point is today's kit is so much more sophisticated I don't se how even a 6 month course can prepare a VM fully for the job he'll be expected to do and it must take at least 2 years in the job to become experienced enough to meet the Cl2 requirements.
 
#12
i have to side with the old and bold on this one, the class 2 book is now like war and peace that requires a minimum of 250 hours completed across all modules, half the tasks in there a majority of tradesmen will never complete. quizzing the tradesman on the difference between SI and Ci engines usually draws an extremely confused look not to mention when asking about BASIC cooling systems and a valve timing diagram.

its the usual score, get them through the recruiting office (so they get the tick in the box), then through the mollycoddled basic training to the trade training depot and out of there so recruiting figures look good (and ATRA get their tick in the box and pat on the back), then its out to a unit where they have no idea what they are supposed to do. then they all get disillusioned and cry about class two and sign off at the first opportunity

maybe going back to a class 2 trade test will highlight the shortfalls in initial training and make the little scr**ts actually earn their class 2 by working and learning through good hands on as a pose to hiding in the woodwork or in the padres office. i feel reducing the basic course to three months and piling yet more pressure on an overstretched class one tradesman to train them where most units are (VM especially) operating with bare minimum class one manning is barking mad

with the complexity and diversity of the kit they are expected to work on i dont think getting class 2 at 6 months is at all feesable.

the major down side of all this will rear its ugly head in a few years when that gerneration hit the class 1 stage and still dont have a clue (there are some now creeping through)
 
#13
yorkshiremick said:
i have to side with the old and bold on this one, the class 2 book is now like war and peace that requires a minimum of 250 hours completed across all modules, half the tasks in there a majority of tradesmen will never complete. quizzing the tradesman on the difference between SI and Ci engines usually draws an extremely confused look not to mention when asking about BASIC cooling systems and a valve timing diagram.

its the usual score, get them through the recruiting office (so they get the tick in the box), then through the mollycoddled basic training to the trade training depot and out of there so recruiting figures look good (and ATRA get their tick in the box and pat on the back), then its out to a unit where they have no idea what they are supposed to do. then they all get disillusioned and cry about class two and sign off at the first opportunity
maybe going back to a class 2 trade test will highlight the shortfalls in initial training and make the little scr**ts actually earn their class 2 by working and learning through good hands on as a pose to hiding in the woodwork or in the padres office. i feel reducing the basic course to three months and piling yet more pressure on an overstretched class one tradesman to train them where most units are (VM especially) operating with bare minimum class one manning is barking mad

with the complexity and diversity of the kit they are expected to work on i dont think getting class 2 at 6 months is at all feesable.

the major down side of all this will rear its ugly head in a few years when that gerneration hit the class 1 stage and still dont have a clue (there are some now creeping through)
Do we stiil conduct Aptitude Tests to determine (a) a persons suitability for the Corps, and (b) aptitude for a particular trade?
 
#14
gallahad said:
yorkshiremick said:
i have to side with the old and bold on this one, the class 2 book is now like war and peace that requires a minimum of 250 hours completed across all modules, half the tasks in there a majority of tradesmen will never complete. quizzing the tradesman on the difference between SI and Ci engines usually draws an extremely confused look not to mention when asking about BASIC cooling systems and a valve timing diagram.

its the usual score, get them through the recruiting office (so they get the tick in the box), then through the mollycoddled basic training to the trade training depot and out of there so recruiting figures look good (and ATRA get their tick in the box and pat on the back), then its out to a unit where they have no idea what they are supposed to do. then they all get disillusioned and cry about class two and sign off at the first opportunity
maybe going back to a class 2 trade test will highlight the shortfalls in initial training and make the little scr**ts actually earn their class 2 by working and learning through good hands on as a pose to hiding in the woodwork or in the padres office. i feel reducing the basic course to three months and piling yet more pressure on an overstretched class one tradesman to train them where most units are (VM especially) operating with bare minimum class one manning is barking mad

with the complexity and diversity of the kit they are expected to work on i dont think getting class 2 at 6 months is at all feesable.

the major down side of all this will rear its ugly head in a few years when that gerneration hit the class 1 stage and still dont have a clue (there are some now creeping through)
Do we stiil conduct Aptitude Tests to determine (a) a persons suitability for the Corps, and (b) aptitude for a particular trade?
Yes we do! BARB test determines the trainability of an applicant.
 
#16
a 3 month vm course!!! 8O thats fcuk all practical work,its probably death by viewfoile! :cry:
 
#18
TRAZTAZ said:
This is a sorry state of affairs if this is really the case!!I am more than worried about the standard of training being received.
Crows seem to arrive from bordom and 6 months later expect their class 2.The book that has to be filled out for it is neigh on impossible to complete in reality, so you can only asses them on the parts relevant to your unit, Eng units probably have best opertunity due to the wide and diverse range of kit they hold, but what if its a RMP detatchment???
I recently sat questioning one young lad trying to get his class 2(He felt disgruntled that he had done 9 months and was still class3!!)When I asked him the difference between a CI and a SI engine I got a blank stare, took him to petty air compressor , pointed at spark plug and asked again , and what type of engine was this..........................MORE BLANK STARE!!!!!
WHAT THE F$$$CK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO???
The recy mech knew the answer!!!! :twisted:
 
#20
TRAZTAZ said:
This is a sorry state of affairs if this is really the case!!I am more than worried about the standard of training being received.
Crows seem to arrive from bordom and 6 months later expect their class 2.The book that has to be filled out for it is neigh on impossible to complete in reality, so you can only asses them on the parts relevant to your unit, Eng units probably have best opertunity due to the wide and diverse range of kit they hold, but what if its a RMP detatchment???
I recently sat questioning one young lad trying to get his class 2(He felt disgruntled that he had done 9 months and was still class3!!)When I asked him the difference between a CI and a SI engine I got a blank stare, took him to petty air compressor , pointed at spark plug and asked again , and what type of engine was this..........................MORE BLANK STARE!!!!!
WHAT THE F$$$CK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO???
Weve got very good 3-2 training going on in our LAD at the moment with constructive lesson plan going on most Wednesdays(mainly by Cpl's who benefit with confidence in teaching ). There are some things which arent able to do in a lot of places but Im sure we can all adapt and come up with plans. I know its time consuming and in a very busy LAD you need as many hands on as possible so in the long run it is beneficial to us all.

Regarding the BARB test it is a phycological test to test trainability and try to make sure people are at a certain standard of learning for the CEG (job) there going for. The Basic skills tests are there to work out the levels of numeracy and literacy and as been having a major overhaul in the last few years and been thrown between the ACIO's and Phase 1 &2 to who's got time or best to govern.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top