Virgin Atlantic Files for Bankruptcy

The biggest problem I have had dealing with a downtown Delhi call centre is Kevin, Simon or Patricia can't understand a word I am saying, despite enunciating clearly and precisely, and in some cases I can't make head nor tail of what they are saying through their impenetrable accents.

This has led to a stiff complaint each time to the UK corporate operator and with someone in the UK having to sort out what I 'phoned "customer services" in Delhi for, whether it be a problem with my broadband, bank, utilities, whatever. The problem is that the bank has reshored its call centre to Liverpool and my electricity provider to Glasgow so I still can't make head nor tail of what the buggers are saying. My broadband provider steadfastly clings to an Indian service centre and so is probably not saving much if most of its customers are having to get the UK end to solve their problems.
At one time they were made to watch shit programs like Eadtenders so they could take about
 
Best-shoring isn't the panacea that it has been made out to be. A lot of companies outsourced to India and are in the process of bringing most of the business back on-shore. Even with a saving of 60% per transaction, there is a hidden cost of lost goodwill by customers/clients. The upshoot is that the donkey work is done offshore, with the guidance and provinence held in the UK.
Quite substantial numbers of call centres are no longer in the "sub-continent".
Bradford?
 
The most immediate threat to low paid jobs is going to be the move to home working. I no longer:
  • Buy as much petrol - i'm not driving to work every day
  • Buy lunch at Morrisons - home made sandwich instead
  • Go for an after work drink with colleagues at the local pub - they live miles away
  • Need to buy so many work clothes - I can continue to wear scruffy ones at home.
Less people working in the city centre garages/supermarkets/pubs/clothing stores because they're doing less business.

Wordsmith
Petrol price goes down, and don't kid us you get dressed. You have a Zoom shirt
 
Lockdown? Zoom shirt? Ooh, get Beau Brummel.

I'm typing this naked.
I was lucky enough to work normally through the lockdown
 
The most immediate threat to low paid jobs is going to be the move to home working. I no longer:
  • Buy as much petrol - i'm not driving to work every day
  • Buy lunch at Morrisons - home made sandwich instead
  • Go for an after work drink with colleagues at the local pub - they live miles away
  • Need to buy so many work clothes - I can continue to wear scruffy ones at home.
Less people working in the city centre garages/supermarkets/pubs/clothing stores because they're doing less business.

Wordsmith
They said that when supermarkets starting taking all the jobs from small shops and garages.
Unless you are intending on stuffing your cash under the mattress you will spend it elsewhere.
 
That's the law of supply and demand though, isn't it? Those airlines that can't keep afloat will go bust. The other airlines will pick up that business.....too many seats, not enough passengers. How long must the taxpayer bail out companies before we accept that there will not be enough passengers, for many years to come, to fill all those seats?

I think the world is changing right in front of our eyes. To think it will go back to where it was before is a little short sighted.

Change is with us now. Virgin is the first to see that and seek protection whilst restructuring.

BA has already said that it won't fly 747's anymore as the demand isn't there. They will probably have to shed more aircraft, staff and routes if they want to remain. As will many other airlines.
It’s debatable whether any airline will actually stay afloat. BAs big competitors have all received massive state bailouts.

I take the view that a healthy domestic airline business is a strategic asset for an island nation that trades globally. If BA and Virgin go, those stepping in to the gap won’t be British.

I struggle to see why Britain’s Indian owned steel industry is a strategic asset when it makes a small percentage of UK demand for a commoditised product yet the long haul airline business is not. Or why restaurants are being subsidised
 
It’s debatable whether any airline will actually stay afloat. BAs big competitors have all received massive state bailouts.

I take the view that a healthy domestic airline business is a strategic asset for an island nation that trades globally. If BA and Virgin go, those stepping in to the gap won’t be British.

I struggle to see why Britain’s Indian owned steel industry is a strategic asset when it makes a small percentage of UK demand for a commoditised product yet the long haul airline business is not. Or why restaurants are being subsidised
Isn't BA owned by the Spanish now?
 
Isn't BA owned by the Spanish now?
No. IAG is registered in Spain, headquartered in London, has a primary listing on the LSE and pays the majority of its tax in the UK. The only function it carries out on Spain is to hold its board meetings. Its biggest shareholder is Qatar. A significant percentage of IAG shares (>40% IIRC) are held by small British shareholders or pension funds. BA itself is a British registered PLC.

Have a look at the companies that the Government has supported with convertible debt. Some have near zero association with the UK.
 
I just received this email


You may have seen headlines today regarding Virgin Atlantic’s Chapter 15 filing in the United States. I wanted to contact you to provide some more context, make sure you have all the information, and to reassure you that if you hold a booking with us, it’s safe.

Firstly, all our scheduled flights continue as normal. All upcoming flight and holiday bookings remain valid; Flying Club members can continue to earn and redeem their miles as usual; customers with cancellations can continue to make changes or request refunds, which are being processed; and our amazing people are ready to ensure you Fly Safe and Fly Well.

As announced on 14 July, we have taken a big step forward in securing our future, by launching a court backed process as part of a solvent recapitalisation of the airline and holiday business. The Chapter 15 filing in the United States is a procedural application to allow the US courts to recognise the restructuring process we are undertaking – in this case, the solvent recapitalisation of the airline under English law. Once approved and implemented, our plan will keep Virgin Atlantic flying.

For some independent analysis of what it means in practice, you can read this God Save The Points article.​
Thanks again for all your support. We look forward to welcoming you onboard soon.

Oli Byers
Senior Vice President Customer Loyalty | Virgin Atlantic​
 

Dr Death

War Hero
Maybe if Richard Branson was a UK Tax payer the government might help out more?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Working from home does require strict discipline though.... The 'Forever Available' culture has to be managed and if your work ethic is in the bracket of being on the workaholic side there's a tendency to get out of bed in the morning, switch on laptop straight away, make a cup of tea then sit in front of the screen for the next 12 hours or more in your boxers without moving at all, answering emails and typing out reports and guff.... the laptop's always on.... blinking at you... 'Ping' when another emails hits.... at least in the office it could be snapped shut and thrown in a locker and you'd HAVE TO go home or face being locked in once the cleaners leave....

I've been putting in a huge amount of hours recently and there's no sign of the In Tray getting any smaller... I'm barking mad and I've got to stop as it's become obsessive, all-consuming, to the detriment of other things I should be doing round the house...
Yes and no. SWMBO is on the risk list and probably not going back to work until next year. She's been doing an extra hour a day, typically.

My work, by its nature, is hurry up and wait. Often I'll get an email asking for something to be done inside 24 hours - a substantial piece of work. So, I'm full on. Other days, nothing happens (hence my presence on here).

I could work to fill every hour. I've done the sums and the rewards would be substantial. But, quality of life would be pants.

It is all about balance, though. That's something that companies are going to have to learn remotely if things continue down a path.
 

Tool

LE
At one time they were made to watch shit programs like Eadtenders so they could take about
It was supposed to help them understand "Britishness" and supposedly to pick up local accents (to differentate between customers, not to speak Estaurine English).
 

Bob Upndown

War Hero
Sn almost impossible question to answer regrettably. A lot depends on what responsibilities are tied into what and by whom. When BMI went bust, a lot of those that had an interest in taking the profits suddenly washed their hands of some of the downsides of ownership, Lufthansa being the prime example.

Much of it is down to the Pension Protection Fund which supposedly protects employees’ pension rights but with BMI and latterly Monarch, my experience of this is that the victims, and they are victims in every sense of the word, get very little return.

This has just been successfully challenged by the pilots’ union and unless the PPF (essentially the Government) appeal is successful, those affected should see a far better return but still not what they’d payed for. At the end of the day, pensions are deferred pay and as is usual, the fact that they are now taxed as such is conveniently forgotten when that tax could be going to help the pension funds.

Its a fuckinge disgrace.
I was at VS between 1995 and 2005, 0A between 1989 and 2009. I can't speak for any differing arrangements made by VS for their employees after 2009.

The fund managers are (were?) Fidelity. I've since tipped my fund into another pot, however 0A has left hers with Fidelity as it's actually a very good, well performing fund. A quick call yesterday confirmed that there's no liability or risk to her pension by VS going under nor is there any to any current or former employee with their fund under Fidelity admin.

Re VS as a going concern? They've not turned a profit for years and the balance sheet looks abysmal. Very little in terms of capital assets, all planes are leased. Since the accountants were let loose, the once fantastic product has been hollowed out so that VS no longer has the cachet it once had. Sure, the PR would suggest otherwise, but scratch very gently below the surface and you'll find an organisation that was struggling to survive even before the Covid hit. Time to let it go...

Re the employees, I still count a number as friends and I'd employ every one of them. The Virgin Flair still has a lot to say for it.
 
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Dr Death

War Hero
He is. Any his company has a dedicated HMRC account manager, which makes it amongst the 1000 largest contributors to the Exchequer.
The court of public opinion does not support Virgin Atlantic receiving a U.K. government loan if Virgin, like its founder Sir Richard Branson, does not pay U.K. taxes. ... He said Branson is “sitting in the Virgin Islands as a tax exile.” Branson rejects claims he moved to the British Virgin Islands for tax reasons.

See @ Does Virgin Atlantic Pay U.K. Tax? Yes, No And That’s Besides The Point.
 
He is. Any his company has a dedicated HMRC account manager, which makes it amongst the 1000 largest contributors to the Exchequer.
So you said before, until I pointed out Virgin Atlantic hasnt made a profit for 3 years. Having a high turnover doesnt always mean high taxes.
 
I was at VS between 1995 and 2005, 0A between 1989 and 2009. I can't speak for any differing arrangements made by VS for their employees after 2009.

The fund managers are (were?) Fidelity. I've since tipped my fund into another pot, however 0A has left hers with Fidelity as it's actually a very good, well performing fund. A quick call yesterday confirmed that there's no liability or risk to her pension by VS going under nor is there any to any current or former employee with their fund under Fidelity admin.

Re VS as a going concern? They've not turned a profit for years and the balance sheet looks abysmal. Very little in terms of capital assets, all planes are leased. Since the accountants were let loose, the once fantastic product has been hollowed out so that VS no longer has the cachet it once had. Sure, the PR would suggest otherwise, but scratch very gently below the surface and you'll find an organisation that was struggling to survive even before the Covid hit. Time to let it go...

Re the employees, I still count a number as friends and I'd employ every one of them. The Virgin Flair still has a lot to say for it.
Excellent, really pleased about that. Losing your earnings is one thing, losing your retirement quite another.

A few of my VS acquaintances view the whole thing as a big advertising hoarding, all pizzazz facing the public, held together with chewing gum and string behind it.
 
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