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Virgin Atlantic Files for Bankruptcy

The whole thing should be a wake up call for the government. Add in the other job losses announced today and they've got no choice now; they're going to have to take a deep breath and accept a higher level of Covid 19 deaths.

Because the alternative is to watch the economy collapse.

Wordsmith

already underway
 
I am stuck WFH, but on the general theme of economy, this is capitalism and I would expect as well as the losers in the big metropolitan cities, the regional towns are absolutely heaving with people and I would imagine local businesses are undergoing boom times.
 
Such a shame. I hope his empire falls around him. The non tax paying, telling us to vote remain..... Not NAAFI so I will stop there

I‘m absolutely certain your words, which I agree with regarding him personally, will be of great comfort to thousands about to lose their jobs. Many of those thousands have specialist skills that they are unlikely to be able to find employment in. They will be competing for jobs outside the industry, in which they have limited experience and it’s not as if there are loads of jobs and very few others chasing them.

Personally, I’m with @BuckFelize on this. We are limping into scenario the modern world has no experience of and an highly doubtful ability to deal with. I’m not sure what the answer is but enforcing restrictions already in place might be a good start. The Army should have been sent to Brighton beach with a shed load of barbed wire, cordon off the beach and the message “you are here for the foreseeable future, we will chuck in food and water, medics will start at one end and run through to the other, everyone will be tested and nobody will leave until cleared, you are dull people, you were told but you decided your own pleasure was more important than your responsibility, think on that next time and by the way, it’s gonna get cold and wet before we’ve finished this so enjoy”. Repeat.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
and yet it is on about supersonic planes.

odd that.

My attitude towards the government has changed. I thought they were doing the best they could under very trying and constantly changing circumstances that had no precedent. They've lost the plot. How you can dangle discount restaurant meals in front of punters to encourage a kick start, and restrict family gatherings at the same time is not just sending out mixed messages, but is batshit mental. Anything involving Joe Public has to be explained in crayon. No wonder people don't know whether to have a shit or a haircut.

Winter is coming. Then what? It's obviously not going away. We either crack on, accept the casualties as the new norm and let nature take its course, or accept the fact that the game is over and watch modern society go the full chimp.

the problem is that IT was never here. the global population are stuck with Plague measures they did not want and that were never needed.

when politicians are creatures of the press and every reporter wants to be a politician they lose proper reasoning and objectivity.

this should never have been allowed to become something it is not. if we weren't stuck with these sillly EU negotiations I do not think it would have been. anywhere near. we would have had advisories instead of one sided hysteria reporting.
 
I‘m absolutely certain your words, which I agree with regarding him personally, will be of great comfort to thousands about to lose their jobs. Many of those thousands have specialist skills that they are unlikely to be able to find employment in. They will be competing for jobs outside the industry, in which they have limited experience and it’s not as if there are loads of jobs and very few others chasing them.

Personally, I’m with @BuckFelize on this. We are limping into scenario the modern world has no experience of and an highly doubtful ability to deal with. I’m not sure what the answer is but enforcing restrictions already in place might be a good start. The Army should have been sent to Brighton beach with a shed load of barbed wire, cordon off the beach and the message “you are here for the foreseeable future, we will chuck in food and water, medics will start at one end and run through to the other, everyone will be tested and nobody will leave until cleared, you are dull people, you were told but you decided your own pleasure was more important than your responsibility, think on that next time and by the way, it’s gonna get cold and wet before we’ve finished this so enjoy”. Repeat.
It is not a British company. I don't think the British tax payer (not him) should keep his bit of the company going to the next crisis, where it will go bankrupt... If he wants to save it, he could himself (but why should he use his own money)?

Virgin received a tax credit of £22m in 2018 and £14m in 2017 since it was unprofitable in those years. The U.K. allows tax relief for trading losses, a practice also evident in the U.S.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Our accountants have picked up on a very interesting point, with so many working from home (and thinking that they are saving fortunes) there are a number of companies starting to look at the salaries for people that normally work in London and travel in, their salaries are based on those facts and reflect that, many are now starting to say that if they want to work from home in the long term then their salaries will be adjusted accordingly, they aren't willing to pay someone who lives say in Southend and commutes in, London salaries, they will pay what the job pays if it was located in their areas in the light of the huge savings they are making, many say they aren't willing to subsidies their salaries in this manner
If it gets business to spread around the country and burst the London bubble, fine by me.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Joan and I did not leave Britain for tax reasons but for our love of the beautiful British Virgin Islands and in particular Necker Island
With its magnificent 123m spire?
 
Such a shame. I hope his empire falls around him. The non tax paying, telling us to vote remain..... Not NAAFI so I will stop there
Envy.... it's a Deadly Sin.... if I was Branson and lucky enough to have lived the life he has I would be looking to save on paying taxes too.... in fact I've been avoiding paying full whack tax for many years, albeit on a less grand scale. Do you have an ISA?
 
Thankfully Flying Club isn't actually part of Virgin Atlantic but part of the wider Virgin group. Even if they do go under, should still be able to cash in points for money off at Virgin holidays or a BFO order from Virgin wines.......hopefully.
 
It is not a British company. I don't think the British tax payer (not him) should keep his bit of the company going to the next crisis, where it will go bankrupt... If he wants to save it, he could himself (but why should he use his own money)?

Virgin received a tax credit of £22m in 2018 and £14m in 2017 since it was unprofitable in those years. The U.K. allows tax relief for trading losses, a practice also evident in the U.S.

No argument from me, I’m very closely involved with the human price of it all, that’s all. To be fair though, I believe he’s already pumped in a sizeable chunk of his own money, an eye watering amount to mere mortals but sadly, price tags on anything to do with aviation are calculated using very complex formulae along the lines of:

Think of a number, double it, add four 0’s.

To illustrate this, and please take this as entirely unfounded evidence, an engineer once told me that the little plastic / foam strips on arm rests run to £1,100 each. @Lindermyer might be better placed to comment though?

I’m not convinced even his very deep pockets would sort this mess even if he did develop very long arms.
 
Our accountants have picked up on a very interesting point, with so many working from home (and thinking that they are saving fortunes) there are a number of companies starting to look at the salaries for people that normally work in London and travel in, their salaries are based on those facts and reflect that, many are now starting to say that if they want to work from home in the long term then their salaries will be adjusted accordingly, they aren't willing to pay someone who lives say in Southend and commutes in, London salaries, they will pay what the job pays if it was located in their areas in the light of the huge savings they are making, many say they aren't willing to subsidies their salaries in this manner

"I am providing electricity, heating and broadband to the company as well as free office space and giving up a room in my house that I pay a mortgage on. This leads to a direct and real saving the company makes on office space. In light of this I believe I am not due a pay cut, but should receive an increase in salary in line with my increased costs, both direct and indirect."
 
A problem is, those calling the shots have govt paychecks. I do myself but I appreciate that, even locally, business is being devastated and if economic activity is greatly reduced, the country is effed.

I recently heard that a large state-funded body assumed that fewer than 60% of their staff would work from an office, in future. The impact of that on the cities and towns which host offices was apparently an afterthought.

I normally work in CS - currently helping out with the Covid in another capacity.

In my day job pretty much everyone was working from home until this week. As is about 1/2 are now in the office - we have two different work streams and one cannot (at this time) be done remotely. However, with the use of VPN’s I fully expect that we will all be at home in the near future with only a cadre needed to work on physical documents by the end of the year - assuming the CS can attract enough IT talent to figure out how to do it by then of course...

This is a big office by the way with about 200 people beavering away. What effect this will have on the company that we previously rented the office space off can only be guessed at - especially when every other office based company/agency has a light-bulb moment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Envy.... it's a Deadly Sin.... if I was Branson and lucky enough to have lived the life he has I would be looking to save on paying taxes too.... in fact I've been avoiding paying full whack tax for many years, albeit on a less grand scale. Do you have an ISA?

Good point, well made. OK, so Branson is a sharp operator etc but over the years he’s been an innovator and has actually made a lot of people happy and provided a lot of jobs to a lot of people in what I understand to be fun places to work. He’s also brought the likes of McDonnell and Corbyn to the edge of madness.

On the other side of the coin, he’s rubbed a lot of noses in it and fallen into the classic trap of assuming that fame / fortune entitles you to preach to little people. Linnekar, Lily Fecking Allen, Jo Brand and endless others refer. He’s also absurdly wealthy.

The natural reaction to this is envy and schadenfreude, the first casualty of which is balance.

Then add in the political dimension, especially when those named above seek to weaponise envy, and you have the ridiculous scenario whereby a large number of people get to suffer on the back of politically motivated antipathy towards one man. In this case, I have it on exceptionally good authority (from someone in the room when it was said, by a Government Minister) that “Government aid to the aviation industry was Politically difficult because of the Branson effect”.

Contrast this with the entertainment industry, chock full of very wealthy people but which actually employs far fewer little people, receives c £1.5bn in sector specific aid. The difference is of course that the wealthy in entertainment are more politically palatable because they preach the right brand of bollocks to the masses from their equally luxurious ivory towers.
 
Such a shame. I hope his empire falls around him. The non tax paying, telling us to vote remain..... Not NAAFI so I will stop there

I’m not a remainder - for the record.

However one of my civvy mates has worked for Virgin for a long time - he has nothing but praise for his employer. Very good perks, good pay, lots of consultation about their job and treated very well.

When furloughed it was done (IIRC) after a vote over what to do - the workers I assume figured out that if they were kept on then no jobs in short order, but if furloughed then they would possibly have jobs to go back to.

He is one of thousands of people who are going to be stuffed if it all goes wrong. And the company is not run by him, nor is he directly a majority shareholder (the virgin group has a big wedge of shares, but that is shared amongst his wider family).

Whilst he may live on Neker, the group of companies has enriched the UK economy on a massive scale.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I normally work in CS - currently helping out with the Covid in another capacity.

In my day job pretty much everyone was working from home until this week. As is about 1/2 are now in the office - we have two different work streams and one cannot (at this time) be done remotely. However, with the use of VPN’s I fully expect that we will all be at home in the near future with only a cadre needed to work on physical documents by the end of the year - assuming the CS can attract enough IT talent to figure out how to do it by then of course...

This is a big office by the way with about 200 people beavering away. What effect this will have on the company that we previously rented the office space off can only be guessed at - especially when every other office based company/agency has a light-bulb moment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Apparently, it costs £60k pa, pp, to provide London - based office accommodation. The savings to business are apparent.
As you say, God knows what landlords/land owners will do.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
While house prices continue to raise we are safe - hallelujah praise to the lord and the Tory house building and letting cartels

Archie
The run on house prices was due to Labour raiding the pension funds in the early 90s, stagnating savings, and letting lots of new people in at the same time. But don’t let facts get in the way.
 
"I am providing electricity, heating and broadband to the company as well as free office space and giving up a room in my house that I pay a mortgage on. This leads to a direct and real saving the company makes on office space. In light of this I believe I am not due a pay cut, but should receive an increase in salary in line with my increased costs, both direct and indirect."
I was getting about 90 a month. Brilliant, until I pointed out I have worked all through lockdown....
 
Envy.... it's a Deadly Sin.... if I was Branson and lucky enough to have lived the life he has I would be looking to save on paying taxes too.... in fact I've been avoiding paying full whack tax for many years, albeit on a less grand scale. Do you have an ISA?

From my perspective, I don’t think there‘s much of an issue of being envious about when a multi billionaire makes his first port of call the British tax payer when his train set is getting in trouble and he want’s £600M of public funds to fix it.

Branson does portray this nice guy attitude as part of his PR and yet even a cursory look at the business practices used by companies using his brand and where he usually has a controlling interest shows an organisation using what I consider to be dubious methods to extract money from the gullible public.

In my instance for example, I use virgin broadband while I’m surfing places like here. My monthly bill from virgin has been running at close to £70 a month for quite some time. That includes a phone line which you used to require for the internet and their cheaper tv package.

I was originally just a few years ago paying around £34 for the same package. When I agreed to the original package, the broadband, phone and tv were each separate components that I agreed to. Virgin then proceed to up the ante price wise on each component without notifying me.

The upshot is that if you haven’t been paying too much attention to what’s going on, you find that you are now a year or two later paying much more than you originally agreed. It’s a bit like saying, here’s my bank details, please help yourself.

Finally deciding to take a half an hour to sort this out and reduce my bill, I contact virgin and tell them that I want to reduce my bill and I’m doing that by cancelling the phone and tv components of my bill. They inform me that they are not components but are just part of “my package.”

Their point is that there isn’t an individual price attached to those components that I can just cancel. My response is, well there was when I agreed them in the first place but now, virgin are saying it’s all part of your “package” deal with us and that’s that!

My response is, well that’s a change you didn’t inform me of but anyway, I still don’t want the tv part of it or the phone bit of it so what are you going to do about it?

Eventually, we get to a situation where they will take those elements off the bill after they have squeezed another months fee’s out of me for them for each part of the cancellation. That brings my bill down to £49. I query this further and they haven’t taken the phone bit of it off. So I tell them again that I don’t want that and that brings my bill down to £42 just for the broadband.

That’s still top dollar for a broadband package and I’m only on their basic one. So I’m now looking around for a decent replacement to swap over to. I think the top end of twenty quid or even something in the low thirties is plenty to pay for broadband at home.

Afterwards, I find that virgin are offering the broadband package I’m on to new customers for £24 a month. I also find out that despite my cancelling the phone part of my deal, it hasn’t actually been cancelled so I’m still paying £49 a month.

Not even the equivalent of a grain of sand in the scheme of things generally but when you consider that if every virgin customer experiences similar issues with virgin, you are probably looking at a large pile of sand.

As far as I‘m concerned, his airline can take it’s chances like every other airline and if it’s needs a bailout, it’s multi billionaire controlling shareholder should use his money to sort his airline out.

Bailouts for major commercial concerns is just socialism for the rich. Watch people like Branson throw their hands up in horror and shout heaven (Sorry, I really meant the British tax payer ones) forbid that we might give some extra public money to the poor but when their cash cows need it, despite their enormous personal wealth, the pubic purse is their first phone call!
 
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Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I was recently (pre-lockdown) asked by a client to write a piece about what the new Garden Towns and Villages will mean for the UK. One of the centrepieces of these communities of the future was/is that they will very much be Of The Future - clean, healthy, connected and so on. They will 'open the door on working from home'.

You have to remember that working from home was a bit like cold fusion - it had been 10 years away for decades.

Then, in mid-March, it had to be delivered in a matter of days. And, pretty much, it was.

The biggest reasons given for not doing it previously were the inability to guarantee operations that were both reliable and secure. Again, both objections have been disproven.

82 percent of the population in this country (if you include retail and leisure) works in the service sector. That means that for many there is little or no need to go to a place of work. There's no factory or shipyard or colliery involved.

What mid-March did was de-couple, pretty much fully and finally, where people live and where they work - at least, for a large proportion of that 82 percent.

That opens the door to many people living pretty much where they like and still being economically viable/contributive.

That article went from being a strategic thought-piece about what was possible to a consideration of what it all means for the UK's property market.

I currently live approximately equidistant between London and Brighton. In terms of a City commute, or access to the live music/theatre/restaurant scene, it was great. At the moment, that's all on 'Pause'.

If we can now live where we like, a lot of those City and other jobs that were centred in the Southeast can happen from a far greater distance. That has profound implications for property prices and for where new developments can (and probably should) be planned. It doesn't look good for many of the businesses in Central London.
 

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