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Violence

#1
Looking through the gash threa that grew around the prison book, I got to wondering.Are squaddies (with any real time in uniform) more apt to aaply physical violence in there lives than never-served. I am not talking PTSD here. In our training, we are taught to bypass the normal human disconnect between reason and escalation to physical, often horrendous, violence. How else to describe bayonet drills?If commanded to violence, we are expected to perform it without pause, and in civvy life, we are the master and commander of ourselves. I'm thinking that neural networks are developed (in conjunction with patterned/ learned adrenal response) which never go away, and in certain situations manifest in antisocial behaviour.Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think so. Most of my ex-mob friends are somewhat less than averse to dishing a well-deserved shoeing to a right **** who has it coming.Any thoughts?
 
#2
Most but by no means all ex are more likely to consider the consequences of laying into someone before they kick off and those with anything about them have already taken steps to ensure they don't have to resort to thumping someone if there is any alternative available.

This is not to say that ex-squaddies won't thump **** out of a deserving case but as someone once said the rules are there to make you think before you break them.

Of course if alcohol is in play then all of the above is null and void.
 
#3
Never served so don't know, but a lad who's in the Paras I know of gets arrested every single time he comes home on leave for starting brawls around town. He was a scrappy chav before he joined though so I don't think its the army thats done it. Come to think of it the last I heard he'd been thrown out, its probably linked! I once saw him lob his cock out at a bar in town and piss down a lads leg who was waiting to get served, amusing to see but no wonder he's always getting in scraps!
 
#4
Funny you mention alcohol, as that's the other case where my theory (and conundrum) applies: Are squaddies more apt to abuse alcohol because of a learned culture of drinking, or does the military just attract risk takers? Same conundrum applies to violence.
Does it attract the predisposed, or foster the response?
 
#5
Funny you mention alcohol, as that's the other case where my theory (and conundrum) applies: Are squaddies more apt to abuse alcohol because of a learned culture of drinking, or does the military just attract risk takers? Same conundrum applies to violence.
Does it attract the predisposed, or foster the response?
Very definetly a learned culture of drinking. I mean take me as an example, before I joined I had been drunk on very few occasions and had very nearly zero tolerance for alcohol. Fast forward a couple of years posting to BAOR and my vodka intake could rival a Russian grandmother.


Did I mention I was only just 16 when I joined? :)
 
#6
So what's your opinion regarding the violence, Steven? I was always a pretty violent kid, if provoked, and grew up in a rather explosive ( military) household, so I can't take myself for example.
 
#7
So what's your opinion regarding the violence, Steven? I was always a pretty violent kid, if provoked, and grew up in a rather explosive ( military) household, so I can't take myself for example.
As I said squaddies, ex or not, usually (not always of course) have at least half an eye on the consequences as they have learnt the painful lesson that being a cupid stunt will hurt them in the end.

I am not saying that they don't get involved but when you think how many ex-squaddies there are wandering around the actual amount of them that get into serious trouble is pretty small.

Now I have to say I am basing these thoughts from a Corps background and as the spams say YMMV if you live near or in a more robust regimental type of neighbourhood.
 
#8
I'm talking more about workaday slaps round the head than serious full-on nutter violence. I guess what I'm getting at is the thoght process that includes violence as a viable option, while knowing fullwell the consequences for same.
 
#9
I often dread mates in the army stopping by the house for a night or two when on leave due to the quantity of booze that I know I'm going to be forced to imbibe. I do always have a good night, though, regardless. But they all have the ability to tan entire 24 can crates of beer in the space of about 4-5 hours before going out and when they're out they get stuck into double vodkas every fifteen minutes for the rest of the night. By 2-3AM, wallets about £150 lighter, they're up at the bar ordering bottles of champagne in night clubs and stuff. It's absolutely mental and I genuinely struggle to keep up. Asking them to calm down and take their time is a ******* sentence to death via slagging.

Interestingly, despite how utterly destroyed they get during the night, they are always up at around 8AM, with the couch-bed and blankets neatly folded and breakfast on. My missus loves that. I asked my cousin, who never touched alcohol before joining the army, how he did it and he explained that this was life. He would normally spend two-three nights over the weekend when at work drunk off his arse with his mates. So he has, as he called it, a 'big capacity for bevvy'. He and I had this chat, by the way, when he stayed over the Christmas period last year and pissed in the corner behind the Christmas tree during the night. He cleaned it up the next morning without uttering a word.

Whenever I have been on a night out with them, though, regardless of how drunk they get or how wild they get, I have never seen them pick a fight or get wrapped up in anything. All three of them whether with a group or just visiting themselves tend to ignore trouble and walk away shaking their heads rather than getting involved.

I think some people are naturally violent individuals. Upbringing and the area they lived in has a lot to do with it. Some of these people join the army, it happens, but the army isn't responsible for their behaviour, I'd say. The world just happens to be full of twats who can't keep their fists lowered.
 
#10
I've never served, but I would liken service training to boxing or martial arts training. You are being taught to cause great harm to another, as well as when to cause that harm. I would think all except the psychos learn not to kick off for fun, because they might end up having that harm done to them.
 
M

Mitch500

Guest
#11
I think service life gives you a capacity to inflict enormous and lethal violence with little or no notice. However it also instills the discipline (in most cases) not to resort to violence until it is not only necessary but essential to achieve a legitimate aim, not just a pissed up punch up. Costs and benefits and all that.
 
#12
I don't think squaddies are neccessarily more violent than the general civpop. I'll bet many are markedly less prone to disorder in civvy environments than civpop.

Take Aldershot and Colchester as examples.

eg; Para depot moves from Aldershot and everybody expects drink related violence in the town to decrease, whilst it will increase in Colchester. But the reverse is true. All the civvy loons have come out of the woodwork in the 'shot and Colly is quieter than its ever been.(I'm told)

Is this just a para thing though? Bored troops are traditionally more unruly than busy ones. Operational tempo at present is probably giving the teeth arms all the adrenaline they need.
 
#13
No the forces create mostly people whose self image and version of reality is retained as a coping comfort for outside life. Propping up the RBL bar waxing lyrical (seeing the world as good guys and bad guys and the solution is slotting the latter ... something they never actually attempt to do because that might get them locked up)

I worked the doors near a Royal Marines base. Marines could be a pain in the arse. But by and large had less bottle than a chocolate frog.

We kept trouble from Marines and RN down by banning their officers from the club. Keep out the Catalysts. ORs we let in.

We also banned RAF aircrew officers. And off duty police. And sales reps. And professional musicians.

Worked a treat.
 
#14
No the forces create mostly people whose self image and version of reality is retained as a coping comfort for outside life. Propping up the RBL bar waxing lyrical (seeing the world as good guys and bad guys and the solution is slotting the latter ... something they never actually attempt to do because that might get them locked up)

I worked the doors near a Royal Marines base. Marines could be a pain in the arse. But by and large had less bottle than a chocolate frog.

We kept trouble from Marines and RN down by banning their officers from the club. Keep out the Catalysts. ORs we let in.

We also banned RAF aircrew officers. And off duty police. And sales reps. And professional musicians.

Worked a treat.

That's very interesting. Officers were the ones you guys saw as being the cause of trouble in the club? I'd have thought it would be the other way about! How did they cause trouble?
 
E

exmunkey

Guest
#15
I've found there are punchy twats on both sides, some do it well and some don't. Not long ago I had the misfortune to meet a serving sergeant who wore his missing teeth and smashed up hands like a badge of honour

As has been said alcohol is the big mixer and a great leveler
 
#16
Interesting thread and some pretty insightful comments. Does age also play a part? I joined at 16 (IJLB then RGJ) and joined a unit that indulged in everything to excess - booze, birds, fighting etc. I got caught up in the whole thing and got stuck in whenever the situation called for. Fast forward 10 or so years, and I found that a) I didn't put myself in that type of scenario and b) if I saw something developing I would get myself out of the situation.
However, when I got married and had kids, my wife quite often had to tell me to back off on the discipline side as I was wont to escalate even the most minor infraction and tear them a new ********! Now, in my dotage I simply remove the newest gadget from them for a wee while - works a treat :)
 
#17
Being trained on all sorts of deadly kit are professional skills and it does not make someone quicker to use their hands off duty.I think one area where soldiers' training does get them into trouble is that once they do start, for whatever reason, they tend to make it stick.Especially when pissed or having lost the first round that 'keep on going, attack, attack' ingrained natural reaction to pain or disorientation way beyond the civvy norm means that some can get themselves into a lot of trouble.Oh, and cap badge rivalry - that'll do it every time.
 
#18
The specific nasty bits, like bayoneting some poor bugger or shooting them, well they aren't a casual thing and training is designed so that people react a certain way under certain conditions.

It's not got anything in particular to do with a pre disposition to thumping people.

Look into the the work of B F Skinner.

B. F. Skinner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would also check out the C4 docu "The Truth About Killing" with Grub Smith which is on youtube in full.

The Truth About Killing - Episode 1 Part 1 - YouTube

Beyond that, well the army is made up of all sorts of people and just like in any other work place you will get some mong who likes punching people instead of thinking. Blokes can just be ***** sometimes, this is universal.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#19
Beyond that, well the army is made up of all sorts of people and just like in any other work place you will get some mong who likes punching people instead of thinking. Blokes can just be ***** sometimes, this is universal.
Yep. I know ex who are lovely quiet guys. I know a high earning solicitor who... well, none of us drink with him after about 21.00. Doesn't matter. Some men are *****. Some men are lovely. Like me.
 

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