Views from the left leaners on the riots

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by jumpinjarhead, Aug 13, 2011.

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  1. Since I try to avoid commenting too much on internal UK politics or matters like the riots that are very much "political," I thought my appropriate contribution to the discussion would be to call to ARRSERs's attention coverage of the riots as well as some if the commentary about them from sources some of you may not follow as closely as I.

    Here several pieces appearing on the UK-based Democracy Now website:

    The full article is here: The burning anger within the riots | openDemocracy

    Here is the entire article/; David Cameron must remember the lessons of Bloody Sunday | openDemocracy

  2. We certainly have problems to solve JJH,but my view is that they are more about individual greed, and this started with a small political meeting, largely of black people, outside a London police station following the shooting of a man by police, the man also happening to be black, and I think I am correct in saying that the last seven men killed by police in the UK have happened to be white.

    My perception is that police would say little to these people, and left it to a local Chief Inspector to deal. I guess the sort of level of one of your Police Captains, where any common sense, knowing the history of the Broadwater riots of some years back, would have sent an Assistant Commissioner (like your deputy deputy Commissioner for a city such as NY). Yes police could not discuss the detailof anything under independent investigation, but no reasona senior officer could not have spoken to them, announced that if they were right they were glad what happened, but if not, their own officers would meet with prosecution. And appealed for some calm.

    What went on from there was not gang related, not politically related, only a little race related, and not related to disempowered youth, low incomes or any such excuses, (though to hear our BBC you might have been led to believe that was the case), but simply a massive opportunity, fuelled by the "behavioural apologists" of the left, including the BBC", who merely by spouting their drivel, in a way "gave permission " for those who simply wished to display bad behaviour, set fire to stuff, threaten and harm people, and steal all they could get their hands on. Just using words like "protest", where they should have been using "criminal behaviour" I am sure fuelled the growth of the crime-wave.

    Yes Britain has problems to solve, but they are not in my view primarily of race or of youth, but of our having supported people so long they now believe they are entitled to whatever they want without making any contribution. We do need change, but immediate riot control is not, I feel, as important or as serious a feature as it may have seemed a few days back, where some were calling for troops etc., as the normal and sensible Britons have made their voice heard, and many of those who rioted and looted will have seen that lack of approval and stay off the streets next time.

    Our police powers are sufficient, but what does need to alter,is that the police need to be shown they have the confidence and support of the people and the government.

    Particularly after the tragic case of Ian Tomlinson, we that we need to give our police again the coinfidence that they can make hard decisions, that may involve risk to bystanders, and that as a society we accept bad things will occasionally happen, but that this should be accepted as part of our risk assessment in thepolice doing their job.

    We needto accept that the human rights of each of the majority are on a small level above those who offend. We also need to stop giving without contribution, and need to remove this current ethos "I am entitled to everything whatever I do, good or bad" .

    The political ,major change here is that politicians need to convince us they are the same, and that they should not rifle our economy either for personal gain!

    Almost as an aside we need to look at our tax and bemefits laws, so that it does not pay an extra £100 a week to couples who live apart;rather than rewarding them like this for men leaving their children with no father figure in the home, we need perhaps to reward those who stay and support their children.

    Those are long term goals; but we should not forget when the socialapologists write and speak tripe, that these disorder situations were primarily about greed, the "fun" of misbehaving, the adolescent need to test society'ss limits and pure greed.
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  3. Sounds about right.
  4. JJH, I'm reminded of the joke from your part of the world: "If we'd known y'all would be this much trouble, we'd have picked our own damn cotton!":biggrin:

    Serious Head On: there will always be those who try to justify the riots as some kind of protest against perceived injustice and racism. Others will point to the "deprivation" of the areas that many(not all)of the rioters and looters come from.

    Bovine Excrement. The riots happend because for decades, governments of both Left and Right have systematically emasculated the police force, to the point it's not even allowed to call itself a force anymore. They have turned the Welfare State from it's original, noble aim to act as a safety net for those who, though no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times, into a lifestyle choice for worthless parasites who have never contributed to society. There are countless examples of these untermenschen; several newspapers today carried the story of a 34 year old woman who has never worked, who receives well over £30,000 a year in Benefits for her ten children by four fathers. And she is now demanding more money because, "I'm entitled.":pissedoff:

    Children of my generation knew that if they misbehaved in school, punishment would be both swift and physical. Parents could discipline their children without fear of being arrested for assault. The criminal justice system - police, judges and prisons - was something to be respected if not feared.

    Nowadays there are no sanctions. Teachers are assaulted and the "children" who attack them are rarely even expelled. A teacher who uses physical force to punish or restrain a pupil will find themselves with a criminal record and without a job.

    Our prisons are a grotesque combination of criminal universities and hotels. Drug taking is epidemic, as is violence, against both staff and their fellow scum. Prisoners enjoy every type of luxury - free gyms, TV, DVD's, computers etc etc - at taxpayers expense. And most serve only half their sentence before automatic early release kicks in.

    Britain used to be divided into Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. Years of Social Engineering have produced the Untermenschen Class: violent, amoral, scum who take pride in their own ignorance, respect nothing and demand everything from a society who's rules they hold in utter contempt. They are obsessed with Gangsta "culture", which would be pathetic if it were not for the casual violence, drugs and crime that goes with some of the worst "music" ever heard by human ears.

    It was this "class" that made up the majority of rioters and looters. Scum, raised in a society where gratification is instant. Where anyone who achieves something through hard work is, "rich". Where the police are the enemy and violent, amoral drug-dealers are role models and hero's.

    The looters and rioters this week were not the spiritual descendants of Dr King or even Malcom X, no matter what the Liberal apologists want us to believe. In their amoral violence, their contempt for societies rules, their hatred for anyone "different" to themselves and their wanton destruction, these people were spiritual if not racial kin to the Nazi Brownshirts who carried out Kristallnacht.
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  5. A very good summing up of the situation!!
  6. Thank you!
  7. I cound not have put it better myself.

  8. JJH, I have never heard of the organisations which you quote, and I doubt if many on this site have. Those of your links I clicked appear to be to Facebook pages and WordPress blogs.

    I just get this feeling that "Campaign for Justice for Smiley Culture" is not regarded as a mainstream organisation on this side of the pond.
  9. Praise from Caesar is praise indeed.
  10. Britain's always had an Untermensch in every generation, it's not some new phenomenon of the post-Thatcher era. The Penny Mobs, Scuttlers, London's East End 'Mobs' are all recognisably of the same ilk as today's chavscum.

    Children of my generation were taught discipline and respect for authority too, but we also had to live with the Tongs, Young Teams and Gouchos smashing the place up when they felt like.
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  11. The recent riots were due to the consumerism culture that has spread all over Europe.

    Materialism also played a big role, in the looting too.

    Its not much a left or right thing, but a urge to take something very expensive for free.

    Its been exposed, that most of the riots, have jobs, or were too young to have a job, wore expensive sport clothing, came from well off families, and others were your usual opportunists.

    Wasnt a racial thing, since many of them arrested were also white males, as we seen in Manchester.

    Like I have stated on another thread, people go by trends, they see on the TV, new nike trainers, a new advanced lap top, and the worlds most slim full HD flat screen tv, they see it, and want it, and the riots were their opportunity to take it, without paying much.

    They felt a sense of unity, some what like a criminal community, by going in gangs, looting together and assisting one another in taking what they want.

    In my view, todays society is materialised, if one can remember their school days and remmeber the Rockport shoes phase, where school children were respected due to the latest pair of rockport, or nike trainers, or even the latest mobile phone with a custom made ring tone.

    Basically, people want more, their greedy, they dont favor the basic things in life. This is a direct result of capitalism gone wrong, whereby the masses compete with eachother to become the most respected due to the things they have.

    In regards to the issue of community depreviation, to be honest, I cant see anybody in the UK being poor, or born poor, most people who live in poverty, maybe due to their own actions, wasting money on things they dont need, spending money on an addiction, so in essence the riots could also be the result of the masses not appriciating the basic things in life, shelter, food and health but instead in a much deluded manner, prefer to build up their reputation, on purchasing items of no good use to them, just to build a reputation.
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  12. What utter tosh! It wasn't rioting it was criminal activity, nothing remotely political, just utter thievery.
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  13. Whatever...

    The net result is going to be more community centres and £X Million spent on "schemes", "programs" & "initiatives" to ensure it doesn't happen again.... Until the next time.

    Unfortunately the law abiding tax payer types in Britain, unlike our European and American cousins, have no stomach for a row and this will pass with little more than a grumble in the pub.
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  14. Yes, but back then the police motto was, "It's gang warfare - and we're the biggest gang!" Actions had consequences; the Razor Gangs in Glasgow were broken by a combination of Strathclyde police clubbing Neds like baby seals and judges handing down sentences of 10 - 15 years in the Bar L for carrying a razor. And back then if you were sentenced to 10 years in jail, with good behaviour you could be out in...10 years. There was no automatic 50% reduction on sentence, and the HMP's themselves were brutally efficient places of punishment. With the emphasis on brutal; attack a Warder in those days and six of his mates would kick you off every wall in your cell.

    You are correct in that as long as there has been society, there has been criminals. And there always will be. The difference is that now we have an entire generation who do not fear the police or courts. Who have been brought up to believe that everything is someone else's fault. Who demand "respec" without every giving any to the society they live off, parasitically.

    This not some small, hardcore of criminals. It is an entire society in it's own right. At their worst, the Tongs and Cumbie never humiliated the UK in the eyes of the world. They never caused millions of pounds worth of damage. And if they murdered innocent people, they knew there was a damn good chance they would end up dancing the Hemp Fandango - not "serving" a sentence in a warm, comfortable HMP with hot and cold running drugs. To say nothing of every modern luxury(including safes to protect their own possessions from thieves!)at tax payers expense.

    The Rubicon has been crossed, Carrots. Our society has traveled through the Looking Glass; up is down and black is white.
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  15. I agree with everything you say, especially the bit about the power ceded to children. What on Earth is the thinking behind that?
    But the word 'Untermenschen' is kind of loaded and however cogent your argument many reasonable people will stop listening as soon as it is heard.