Views from the left leaners on the riots

#1
Since I try to avoid commenting too much on internal UK politics or matters like the riots that are very much "political," I thought my appropriate contribution to the discussion would be to call to ARRSERs's attention coverage of the riots as well as some if the commentary about them from sources some of you may not follow as closely as I.

Here several pieces appearing on the UK-based Democracy Now website:

The burning anger within the riots


Merlin Emanuel, 12 August 2011

About the author
Merlin Emanuel is an official representative of the Campaign for Justice for Smiley Culture (who was his uncle). He also serves on the executive committee of The Equality Movement.



First, I would also like to unequivocally condemn the looting and destruction of our local communities, the acts of violence towards the common citizen and the thuggish opportunism displayed by a fraction of our youth. But what is far more concerning to me is the response of ourselves as adults and parents and the hypocrisy of our government, politicians and the police to recent events.


They would have you believe that the alarming behaviour of our youth has no political agenda, and is solely based on opportunism and thuggery but I will tell you this: the youths are very aware of what's going on around them, they do care about their bleak realities but will not protest as they have seen that our peaceful protests achieve very little. Society then has taught them that violence is the answer and the government re-enforces those sentiments every day with their international policies.
The full article is here: The burning anger within the riots | openDemocracy



David Cameron must remember the lessons of Bloody Sunday


Tom Griffin, 13 August 2011

About the author
Tom Griffin is a freelance writer and researcher. He is currently undertaking a Ph.D at the University of Strathclyde.

I learned of the London riots last week when I got back from a night out in Belfast only to be greeted by scenes of riot police and burning buses in Tottenham on the TV news. It felt like an uncanny vantage point from which to be watching part of my hometown in flames.

The sense of cognitive dissonance only grew the following evening on my return to a London that was witnessing calls for plastic bullets, troops on the streets and other measures whose disastrous consequences I had spent the previous week learning about.

This August marks the 40th anniversary of the introduction of internment without trial in Northern Ireland, perhaps the most draconian attempt to suppress civil unrest by a British government in modern times.The Féile an Phobail festival in West Belfast last week witnessed testimony from internees and the families of civilians killed during the period. The picture that emerged was one of a disastrous policy that exacerbated the Troubles for decades.




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Here is the entire article/; David Cameron must remember the lessons of Bloody Sunday | openDemocracy


 
#2
We certainly have problems to solve JJH,but my view is that they are more about individual greed, and this started with a small political meeting, largely of black people, outside a London police station following the shooting of a man by police, the man also happening to be black, and I think I am correct in saying that the last seven men killed by police in the UK have happened to be white.

My perception is that police would say little to these people, and left it to a local Chief Inspector to deal. I guess the sort of level of one of your Police Captains, where any common sense, knowing the history of the Broadwater riots of some years back, would have sent an Assistant Commissioner (like your deputy deputy Commissioner for a city such as NY). Yes police could not discuss the detailof anything under independent investigation, but no reasona senior officer could not have spoken to them, announced that if they were right they were glad what happened, but if not, their own officers would meet with prosecution. And appealed for some calm.

What went on from there was not gang related, not politically related, only a little race related, and not related to disempowered youth, low incomes or any such excuses, (though to hear our BBC you might have been led to believe that was the case), but simply a massive opportunity, fuelled by the "behavioural apologists" of the left, including the BBC", who merely by spouting their drivel, in a way "gave permission " for those who simply wished to display bad behaviour, set fire to stuff, threaten and harm people, and steal all they could get their hands on. Just using words like "protest", where they should have been using "criminal behaviour" I am sure fuelled the growth of the crime-wave.

Yes Britain has problems to solve, but they are not in my view primarily of race or of youth, but of our having supported people so long they now believe they are entitled to whatever they want without making any contribution. We do need change, but immediate riot control is not, I feel, as important or as serious a feature as it may have seemed a few days back, where some were calling for troops etc., as the normal and sensible Britons have made their voice heard, and many of those who rioted and looted will have seen that lack of approval and stay off the streets next time.

Our police powers are sufficient, but what does need to alter,is that the police need to be shown they have the confidence and support of the people and the government.

Particularly after the tragic case of Ian Tomlinson, we that we need to give our police again the coinfidence that they can make hard decisions, that may involve risk to bystanders, and that as a society we accept bad things will occasionally happen, but that this should be accepted as part of our risk assessment in thepolice doing their job.

We needto accept that the human rights of each of the majority are on a small level above those who offend. We also need to stop giving without contribution, and need to remove this current ethos "I am entitled to everything whatever I do, good or bad" .

The political ,major change here is that politicians need to convince us they are the same, and that they should not rifle our economy either for personal gain!

Almost as an aside we need to look at our tax and bemefits laws, so that it does not pay an extra £100 a week to couples who live apart;rather than rewarding them like this for men leaving their children with no father figure in the home, we need perhaps to reward those who stay and support their children.

Those are long term goals; but we should not forget when the socialapologists write and speak tripe, that these disorder situations were primarily about greed, the "fun" of misbehaving, the adolescent need to test society'ss limits and pure greed.
 
#3
Sounds about right.
 
#4
JJH, I'm reminded of the joke from your part of the world: "If we'd known y'all would be this much trouble, we'd have picked our own damn cotton!":biggrin:

Serious Head On: there will always be those who try to justify the riots as some kind of protest against perceived injustice and racism. Others will point to the "deprivation" of the areas that many(not all)of the rioters and looters come from.

Bovine Excrement. The riots happend because for decades, governments of both Left and Right have systematically emasculated the police force, to the point it's not even allowed to call itself a force anymore. They have turned the Welfare State from it's original, noble aim to act as a safety net for those who, though no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times, into a lifestyle choice for worthless parasites who have never contributed to society. There are countless examples of these untermenschen; several newspapers today carried the story of a 34 year old woman who has never worked, who receives well over £30,000 a year in Benefits for her ten children by four fathers. And she is now demanding more money because, "I'm entitled.":pissedoff:

Children of my generation knew that if they misbehaved in school, punishment would be both swift and physical. Parents could discipline their children without fear of being arrested for assault. The criminal justice system - police, judges and prisons - was something to be respected if not feared.

Nowadays there are no sanctions. Teachers are assaulted and the "children" who attack them are rarely even expelled. A teacher who uses physical force to punish or restrain a pupil will find themselves with a criminal record and without a job.

Our prisons are a grotesque combination of criminal universities and hotels. Drug taking is epidemic, as is violence, against both staff and their fellow scum. Prisoners enjoy every type of luxury - free gyms, TV, DVD's, computers etc etc - at taxpayers expense. And most serve only half their sentence before automatic early release kicks in.

Britain used to be divided into Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. Years of Social Engineering have produced the Untermenschen Class: violent, amoral, scum who take pride in their own ignorance, respect nothing and demand everything from a society who's rules they hold in utter contempt. They are obsessed with Gangsta "culture", which would be pathetic if it were not for the casual violence, drugs and crime that goes with some of the worst "music" ever heard by human ears.

It was this "class" that made up the majority of rioters and looters. Scum, raised in a society where gratification is instant. Where anyone who achieves something through hard work is, "rich". Where the police are the enemy and violent, amoral drug-dealers are role models and hero's.

The looters and rioters this week were not the spiritual descendants of Dr King or even Malcom X, no matter what the Liberal apologists want us to believe. In their amoral violence, their contempt for societies rules, their hatred for anyone "different" to themselves and their wanton destruction, these people were spiritual if not racial kin to the Nazi Brownshirts who carried out Kristallnacht.
 
#5
JJH, I'm reminded of the joke from your part of the world: "If we'd known y'all would be this much trouble, we'd have picked our own damn cotton!":biggrin:

Serious Head On: there will always be those who try to justify the riots as some kind of protest against perceived injustice and racism. Others will point to the "deprivation" of the areas that many(not all)of the rioters and looters come from.

Bovine Excrement. The riots happend because for decades, governments of both Left and Right have systematically emasculated the police force, to the point it's not even allowed to call itself a force anymore. They have turned the Welfare State from it's original, noble aim to act as a safety net for those who, though no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times, into a lifestyle choice for worthless parasites who have never contributed to society. There are countless examples of these untermenschen; several newspapers today carried the story of a 34 year old woman who has never worked, who receives well over £30,000 a year in Benefits for her ten children by four fathers. And she is now demanding more money because, "I'm entitled.":pissedoff:

Children of my generation knew that if they misbehaved in school, punishment would be both swift and physical. Parents could discipline their children without fear of being arrested for assault. The criminal justice system - police, judges and prisons - was something to be respected if not feared.

Nowadays there are no sanctions. Teachers are assaulted and the "children" who attack them are rarely even expelled. A teacher who uses physical force to punish or restrain a pupil will find themselves with a criminal record and without a job.

Our prisons are a grotesque combination of criminal universities and hotels. Drug taking is epidemic, as is violence, against both staff and their fellow scum. Prisoners enjoy every type of luxury - free gyms, TV, DVD's, computers etc etc - at taxpayers expense. And most serve only half their sentence before automatic early release kicks in.

Britain used to be divided into Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. Years of Social Engineering have produced the Untermenschen Class: violent, amoral, scum who take pride in their own ignorance, respect nothing and demand everything from a society who's rules they hold in utter contempt. They are obsessed with Gangsta "culture", which would be pathetic if it were not for the casual violence, drugs and crime that goes with some of the worst "music" ever heard by human ears.

It was this "class" that made up the majority of rioters and looters. Scum, raised in a society where gratification is instant. Where anyone who achieves something through hard work is, "rich". Where the police are the enemy and violent, amoral drug-dealers are role models and hero's.

The looters and rioters this week were not the spiritual descendants of Dr King or even Malcom X, no matter what the Liberal apologists want us to believe. In there amoral violence, their contempt for societies rules, their hatred for anyone "different" to themselves and their wanton destruction, these people were spiritual if not racial kin to the Nazi Brownshirts who carried out Krystalnacht.
A very good summing up of the situation!!
 
#7
JJH, I'm reminded of the joke from your part of the world: "If we'd known y'all would be this much trouble, we'd have picked our own damn cotton!":biggrin:

Serious Head On: there will always be those who try to justify the riots as some kind of protest against perceived injustice and racism. Others will point to the "deprivation" of the areas that many(not all)of the rioters and looters come from.

Bovine Excrement. The riots happend because for decades, governments of both Left and Right have systematically emasculated the police force, to the point it's not even allowed to call itself a force anymore. They have turned the Welfare State from it's original, noble aim to act as a safety net for those who, though no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times, into a lifestyle choice for worthless parasites who have never contributed to society. There are countless examples of these untermenschen; several newspapers today carried the story of a 34 year old woman who has never worked, who receives well over £30,000 a year in Benefits for her ten children by four fathers. And she is now demanding more money because, "I'm entitled.":pissedoff:

Children of my generation knew that if they misbehaved in school, punishment would be both swift and physical. Parents could discipline their children without fear of being arrested for assault. The criminal justice system - police, judges and prisons - was something to be respected if not feared.

Nowadays there are no sanctions. Teachers are assaulted and the "children" who attack them are rarely even expelled. A teacher who uses physical force to punish or restrain a pupil will find themselves with a criminal record and without a job.

Our prisons are a grotesque combination of criminal universities and hotels. Drug taking is epidemic, as is violence, against both staff and their fellow scum. Prisoners enjoy every type of luxury - free gyms, TV, DVD's, computers etc etc - at taxpayers expense. And most serve only half their sentence before automatic early release kicks in.

Britain used to be divided into Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. Years of Social Engineering have produced the Untermenschen Class: violent, amoral, scum who take pride in their own ignorance, respect nothing and demand everything from a society who's rules they hold in utter contempt. They are obsessed with Gangsta "culture", which would be pathetic if it were not for the casual violence, drugs and crime that goes with some of the worst "music" ever heard by human ears.

It was this "class" that made up the majority of rioters and looters. Scum, raised in a society where gratification is instant. Where anyone who achieves something through hard work is, "rich". Where the police are the enemy and violent, amoral drug-dealers are role models and hero's.

The looters and rioters this week were not the spiritual descendants of Dr King or even Malcom X, no matter what the Liberal apologists want us to believe. In there amoral violence, their contempt for societies rules, their hatred for anyone "different" to themselves and their wanton destruction, these people were spiritual if not racial kin to the Nazi Brownshirts who carried out Krystalnacht.
I cound not have put it better myself.

CG
 
#8
JJH, I have never heard of the organisations which you quote, and I doubt if many on this site have. Those of your links I clicked appear to be to Facebook pages and WordPress blogs.

I just get this feeling that "Campaign for Justice for Smiley Culture" is not regarded as a mainstream organisation on this side of the pond.
 
#10
Britain used to be divided into Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. Years of Social Engineering have produced the Untermenschen Class: violent, amoral, scum who take pride in their own ignorance, respect nothing and demand everything from a society who's rules they hold in utter contempt. They are obsessed with Gangsta "culture", which would be pathetic if it were not for the casual violence, drugs and crime that goes with some of the worst "music" ever heard by human ears.
Britain's always had an Untermensch in every generation, it's not some new phenomenon of the post-Thatcher era. The Penny Mobs, Scuttlers, London's East End 'Mobs' are all recognisably of the same ilk as today's chavscum.

Children of my generation were taught discipline and respect for authority too, but we also had to live with the Tongs, Young Teams and Gouchos smashing the place up when they felt like.
 
#11
The recent riots were due to the consumerism culture that has spread all over Europe.

Materialism also played a big role, in the looting too.

Its not much a left or right thing, but a urge to take something very expensive for free.

Its been exposed, that most of the riots, have jobs, or were too young to have a job, wore expensive sport clothing, came from well off families, and others were your usual opportunists.

Wasnt a racial thing, since many of them arrested were also white males, as we seen in Manchester.

Like I have stated on another thread, people go by trends, they see on the TV, new nike trainers, a new advanced lap top, and the worlds most slim full HD flat screen tv, they see it, and want it, and the riots were their opportunity to take it, without paying much.

They felt a sense of unity, some what like a criminal community, by going in gangs, looting together and assisting one another in taking what they want.

In my view, todays society is materialised, if one can remember their school days and remmeber the Rockport shoes phase, where school children were respected due to the latest pair of rockport, or nike trainers, or even the latest mobile phone with a custom made ring tone.

Basically, people want more, their greedy, they dont favor the basic things in life. This is a direct result of capitalism gone wrong, whereby the masses compete with eachother to become the most respected due to the things they have.

In regards to the issue of community depreviation, to be honest, I cant see anybody in the UK being poor, or born poor, most people who live in poverty, maybe due to their own actions, wasting money on things they dont need, spending money on an addiction, so in essence the riots could also be the result of the masses not appriciating the basic things in life, shelter, food and health but instead in a much deluded manner, prefer to build up their reputation, on purchasing items of no good use to them, just to build a reputation.
 
#12
The recent riots were due to the consumerism culture that has spread all over Europe.

Materialism also played a big role, in the looting too.

Its not much a left or right thing, but a urge to take something very expensive for free.

Its been exposed, that most of the riots, have jobs, or were too young to have a job, wore expensive sport clothing, came from well off families, and others were your usual opportunists.

Wasnt a racial thing, since many of them arrested were also white males, as we seen in Manchester.

Like I have stated on another thread, people go by trends, they see on the TV, new nike trainers, a new advanced lap top, and the worlds most slim full HD flat screen tv, they see it, and want it, and the riots were their opportunity to take it, without paying much.

They felt a sense of unity, some what like a criminal community, by going in gangs, looting together and assisting one another in taking what they want.

In my view, todays society is materialised, if one can remember their school days and remmeber the Rockport shoes phase, where school children were respected due to the latest pair of rockport, or nike trainers, or even the latest mobile phone with a custom made ring tone.

Basically, people want more, their greedy, they dont favor the basic things in life. This is a direct result of capitalism gone wrong, whereby the masses compete with eachother to become the most respected due to the things they have.

In regards to the issue of community depreviation, to be honest, I cant see anybody in the UK being poor, or born poor, most people who live in poverty, maybe due to their own actions, wasting money on things they dont need, spending money on an addiction, so in essence the riots could also be the result of the masses not appriciating the basic things in life, shelter, food and health but instead in a much deluded manner, prefer to build up their reputation, on purchasing items of no good use to them, just to build a reputation.
What utter tosh! It wasn't rioting it was criminal activity, nothing remotely political, just utter thievery.
 
#13
Whatever...

The net result is going to be more community centres and £X Million spent on "schemes", "programs" & "initiatives" to ensure it doesn't happen again.... Until the next time.

Unfortunately the law abiding tax payer types in Britain, unlike our European and American cousins, have no stomach for a row and this will pass with little more than a grumble in the pub.
 
#14
Britain's always had an Untermensch in every generation, it's not some new phenomenon of the post-Thatcher era. The Penny Mobs, Scuttlers, London's East End 'Mobs' are all recognisably of the same ilk as today's chavscum.

Children of my generation were taught discipline and respect for authority too, but we also had to live with the Tongs, Young Teams and Gouchos smashing the place up when they felt like.
Yes, but back then the police motto was, "It's gang warfare - and we're the biggest gang!" Actions had consequences; the Razor Gangs in Glasgow were broken by a combination of Strathclyde police clubbing Neds like baby seals and judges handing down sentences of 10 - 15 years in the Bar L for carrying a razor. And back then if you were sentenced to 10 years in jail, with good behaviour you could be out in...10 years. There was no automatic 50% reduction on sentence, and the HMP's themselves were brutally efficient places of punishment. With the emphasis on brutal; attack a Warder in those days and six of his mates would kick you off every wall in your cell.

You are correct in that as long as there has been society, there has been criminals. And there always will be. The difference is that now we have an entire generation who do not fear the police or courts. Who have been brought up to believe that everything is someone else's fault. Who demand "respec" without every giving any to the society they live off, parasitically.

This not some small, hardcore of criminals. It is an entire society in it's own right. At their worst, the Tongs and Cumbie never humiliated the UK in the eyes of the world. They never caused millions of pounds worth of damage. And if they murdered innocent people, they knew there was a damn good chance they would end up dancing the Hemp Fandango - not "serving" a sentence in a warm, comfortable HMP with hot and cold running drugs. To say nothing of every modern luxury(including safes to protect their own possessions from thieves!)at tax payers expense.

The Rubicon has been crossed, Carrots. Our society has traveled through the Looking Glass; up is down and black is white.
 
#15
Britain used to be divided into Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. Years of Social Engineering have produced the Untermenschen Class.
I agree with everything you say, especially the bit about the power ceded to children. What on Earth is the thinking behind that?
But the word 'Untermenschen' is kind of loaded and however cogent your argument many reasonable people will stop listening as soon as it is heard.
 

jim24

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
What we consider a riot in the UK is a normal Saturday night in Philadelphia ,Baltimore,South Central LA, ect
 
#18
I agree with everything you say, especially the bit about the power ceded to children. What on Earth is the thinking behind that?
But the word 'Untermenschen' is kind of loaded and however cogent your argument many reasonable people will stop listening as soon as it is heard.
I actually meant it as an ironic point; as I stated, there is very little moral difference between the rioters/looters and the Nazi Brownshirts who carried out Krystalnacht.

Also untermenschen or, "sub-human", has been used by countless posters on ARRSE to describe the rioters. Since they behaved more like rabid vermin than civilised human beings, one could argue that in this case the term is morally correct. Even if politically incorrect.
 
#19
I just get this feeling that "Campaign for Justice for Smiley Culture" is not regarded as a mainstream organisation on this side of the pond.
Perhaps not, but Ligali is. So much so that its leader was invited to attend the church service to mark the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery. He was the bloke who stood up and had a go at the Queen.

Have a look on the web site of this "Pan-African Human Rights Organisation" that's based in Hackney and learn a few things such as:-

The white race is an "inferior genetic mutation".

White women all have poor personal hygiene.

White men all keep pit bulls and they have the same levels of cleanliness as their dogs.

All police are racists and it's the duty of black people to oppose them.


About 18 months ago, a couple of white supremacists were extradited from America and sent down for several years each for writing similar things about black people and Jews. Meanwhile, Ligali is not only tolerated, it's actually funded by Haringey council.

The behaviour of the Labour national government, and particularly loony left local government, towards organisations like Ligali has fostered a culture of impunity among some people. IMHO that was a very significant factor in last week's riots.
 
#20
JJH,

My opinion for what it's worth is that we have seen a societal convulsion that's been brewing for several decades. It affects our society from top to bottom. Sadly, it's taken several tragic deaths and several hundred million pounds worth of damage over 3 days to make the problem public, so that everyone can see it.

The immediate need is to regain control of the streets and give exemplary punishment to the guilty, and I am personally more than happy to see skulls being cracked and the prisons bulging.

The really difficult bit is to follow. Lots of navel gazing and lots of rooting out of things our fore-fathers would have described as evil or merely wasteful.

I'm sure we can do the immediate action, but the challenge lies in the next stage.
 

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