Vietnam offers navy base to foil China

#1
Charlie do surf!

Foreign navies are to be given access to Vietnam's Cam Ranh Bay, a naval stronghold that was a key Cold War outpost that is now emerging as a vital base to counter Chinese dominance of the South China Sea

in full

Vietnam offers navy base to foil China - Telegraph

A very interesting pressure point on PLAN's ambitions and one that the US would be wise to look at.
 
#2
The Vietnamese are very crafty, they used the Russians to keep the Americans at bay during the Vietnam war, but didn't want to come under Soviet influence. Now they seem to want to use anyone and everyone to keep the Chinese at bay. There is of course no love lost between the two countries.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
I was banging on on another thread a while back about the South China Sea. Odd bits of rock that nobody needed to bother about before are now much more significant. In China's view might is right.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
I wonder how the Chinese would fare . . . .
 
#7
Interesting notion. We've already been there courtesy of the government of the Republic of South Vietnam. I don't know if we want to go back at the invitation of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (who kicked us out) just to checkmate the Chinese but maybe there would be some interest in going back in with the Russians as a joint venture. Our plate is already quite full. :eye: The purple-lipped One is now doing another apology tour of Asia (at considerable tax-payer expense I might add) so maybe the Vietnamese should put a word into Hillary's califlower-like ear. :muhaha:
 
#8
In October, Vietnam signed an agreement giving Indian naval ships base facilities at its ports. India, in turn, agreed to help Hanoi expand its naval logistics capabilities, and to train its army in jungle warfare.
Surfs and has an internationalist sense of humour.

B
 
#9
Oh! Goody goody! We shall be able to berth all our aircraft carriers in Cam Ranh Bay.

What was that? We don't have any aircraft carriers - well b*gger me!

I was certain that the cretinous and oaf-like misfit, Gordon Brown, said he had ordered two.

What was that?

The Second in Command of the company building these 'non' ships has resigned because he opines that the whole dishonest pantomime will lead to 'disaster'; and he predicts that Britain will become a 'laughing stock' Bit late for that prediction Sir, we have been a 'laughing stock' ever since we sacked Mrs. Thatcher as the 'boss'.
 
#10
Their navy's won silver the last few times it went up against PLAN, so they're under no illusions about their ability to dispute affairs on their own. However, I doubt they think any of the hosted vessels will come leaping to their aid if they have another bash - I wonder what they think this will achieve in terms of either encircling China or breaking a Chinese encirclement.
 
#11
Charlie do surf!

Foreign navies are to be given access to Vietnam's Cam Ranh Bay, a naval stronghold that was a key Cold War outpost that is now emerging as a vital base to counter Chinese dominance of the South China Sea

in full

Vietnam offers navy base to foil China - Telegraph

A very interesting pressure point on PLAN's ambitions and one that the US would be wise to look at.
As much as I love going for Pho, they can go f*ck themselves in my opinion. They wanted the US out, we should stay out and the peoples navy can have at it with the Chinese.

Was I too subtle?
 
#12
I wonder how the Chinese would fare . . . .
No need to wonder - they staged a full-on invasion in 1979, not long after the Viets ousted their boy Pol Pot from Cambodia. Withdrew after trashing the border areas, claimed victory but failed either do retain a foothold in Vietnam or force a Vietnamese withdrawal from Cambodia.

The Vietnamese made good use of all the artillery the Americans had kindly left behind, IIRC.
 
#13
Interesting notion. We've already been there courtesy of the government of the Republic of South Vietnam. I don't know if we want to go back at the invitation of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (who kicked us out) just to checkmate the Chinese but maybe there would be some interest in going back in with the Russians as a joint venture. Our plate is already quite full. :eye: The purple-lipped One is now doing another apology tour of Asia (at considerable tax-payer expense I might add) so maybe the Vietnamese should put a word into Hillary's califlower-like ear. :muhaha:
You're not wrong given the number of C-17 transport airplanes supporting this circus at my local air base here in Thailand.

I bet the massage parlours have doubled their prices in Pattaya this week.
 
#14
File this under the dumb cracker school of Foreign Policy. And I do mean JFK rather than LBJ and Nixon.

China is historically Vietnam's enemy numero uno. Now the whole grand strategic US shebang is contracting rapidly away from and the Atlantic and the Persian Gulf to the seas of the new Great Game around the coming powers of India an China. What DC has in its old enemy Vietnam is a natural South Asian allay to balance against its current frenemy China. A less parochial leadership might have have recognized this back in 56, 48 or even 1919 amidst all that pious 14 points gibberish.
 
#16
China is historically Vietnam's enemy numero uno.
They're also, historically, one of Vietnam's staunchest allies - having helped them fight the French twice and the yanks once in the last hundred and fifty years. It all depends on what bit of 'history' you're looking at.

If you go to the northern part of Vietnam and visit some of their ancient monuments, the inscriptions are in Chinese characters. Not because the Chinese left them there but because the Vietnamese used to use them in the same way we used to use Latin. 'Historic enmity' is pretty ahistoric, taken in the longer term.
 
#17
They're also, historically, one of Vietnam's staunchest allies - having helped them fight the French twice and the yanks once in the last hundred and fifty years. It all depends on what bit of 'history' you're looking at.

If you go to the northern part of Vietnam and visit some of their ancient monuments, the inscriptions are in Chinese characters. Not because the Chinese left them there but because the Vietnamese used to use them in the same way we used to use Latin. 'Historic enmity' is pretty ahistoric, taken in the longer term.
You'll find Latin even beyond the heel of the Romans in Ireland and much Arabic in Spain, persistent native affection does not necessarily follow. Hanoi and Beijing currently remain at dagger ends.

You are mistaking actions of devious necessity akin to the USSR and Nazi Germany with those of chums. Ho's emergent Vietnam was supported by both the USSR and China and these were Red actors to some extent acting in bitter competition. It's often forgotten that by 79 Hanoi with Saigon fallen was in an even more intense war with the invading PLA and the USSR was backing away from the mess.

China directly ruled Vietnam from 207 BC until 938 AD, it was a vassal state to the Han for much of its history until the French arrived in the 19th century, harvested some rubber and rapidly left. Compared with the Mongols the US intervention in their long 20th century civil war is a blip on their radar historically. Currently they need the shrinking US blue water navy like a drowning man needs air.
 
#18
Hanoi and Beijing currently remain at dagger ends.
I was making the point in response to a suggestion that this had always been the case that relations were far more cordial at other times. I’m just taking a longer view of history than the post-war period alone.

China directly ruled Vietnam from 207 BC until 938 AD, it was a vassal state to the Han for much of its history until the French arrived in the 19th century, harvested some rubber and rapidly left. Compared with the Mongols the US intervention in their long 20th century civil war is a blip on their radar historically. Currently they need the shrinking US blue water navy like a drowning man needs air.
It depends on what you mean by ‘China’ and ‘Vietnam’. Neither Dai Viet nor Champa are the same as modern Vietnam and China’s grown, shrank, fragmented and changed hands innumerable since the days of Qin. The Yuan may have been able to knock over most of Asia but not even Kublai's Mongol tenacity could drive much south of Hue and they didn’t attempt to hold it as they did with their Chinese conquests.

The current spat is a blip: it’ll come and go and no doubt be repeated at some point in the future. I don’t attempt to deny it’s real but that’s not the same as saying it’s always been that way and therefore always will be: we have not always been at war with Oceania.
 

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