Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Figures Victory Miniatures - 120mm Trafalgar Gun Crew

Wow! Sounds most impressive. Wish I'd seen it when I was down the Smoke. I will try to emulate that but without the smoke. By the way, did the guns look Black or Dull Bronze?

I'd go with the black...

12.jpg


The colour of gun barrels is a tricky one. I was reading up on Napoleonic era artillery last weekend and one of my reference books did mention that the British tended to paint their gun barrels either black or dark brown - other sources claim the barrels were bronze and kept polished in peacetime but were allowed to tarnish on operations (as long as they were clean I guess). The Navy may have used black or brown paint.

However, I have also read that the navy got first call on the best quality bronze for their guns. I can't see the Andrew not polishing something if it was there to be polished however there were a lot of other more important things to do every day on a ship of the line so it might have been simpler to paint the barrels to protect them from the effects of damp and salt water. The paint would have burnt off in action and would need repainting in any case.

The pic above is from here BTW...

 

Chef

LE
I think I should enclose a diagram of a cannon with labelled parts to assist those who don't know the various names for the parts.
View attachment 523503
You may need to enlarge it to read the names. Working late tomorrow so will attempt more on Thursday.

There are some talented modellers on this site and a joy to watch these builds, plus educational. I found this diagram which may be helpful:
Parts of a Cannon

I wonder if there's a poem about naming of parts? I know there's one about Christmas.
 
Hair colour was Desert Sand for the Powder Monkey, overlaid with Woodgrain. The Marine was given a Burnt Umber hair colour, again followed by an overlay of the Woodgrain.
Have you ever been tempted to use real (or even artificial) hair?

I have an abiding memory of a junior school history project where a friend brought in a caveman modelled from an Action Man made hairy from the clippings from his dad's armpit. At least, he said that it was from his armpit. This was before Action Man was manufactured in a hairy version.
 

Mufulira42

Old-Salt
Left and right shoes came in much later and all armies in europe at that time had a standard shaped shoe. IIRC the wearer was supposed to alternate them on the feet so that they wore evenly. They didn't last very long though - about a month on a hard campaign was considered pretty good. The French army regularly seized stocks of shoes from the towns they passed through so they could keep their infantry in footwear.

One major problem was the contractors who made the shoes often skimped on the materials and it was not unkown for the shoes to be glued together (rather than stitched) or haave the soles made of a think skin of leather and the rest being cardboard. There are cases when the shoes fell apart during the first march in the wet or rain and lots of accounts mentioning barefoot troops.

11749a4c210988d571175b7006d65dca.jpg


In the Penisular campaign both British and French troops adopted the Spanish espadrille style footwear as it was easier to get hold of than proper boots/shoes (like the chap on the left of the pic below)...

KingJosephBonapartesSpanishInfantryPlate.JPG


spanart4b.jpg


279_18.jpg


Generally it was only the officers who would (or could afford) to have proper boots made for them.

Even as late as the American Civil War the contractors were supplying inadequate footwear.
So not much has changed-- recently acquired a pair of Cdn Forces boots made in PRC (cheapest source of course) and after 1 patrol after grouse noted stitching on uppers was fraying and tearing away. Not impressed at all although the attached instructions stated no bulling allowed --- drab is the order of the day!
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Have you ever been tempted to use real (or even artificial) hair?

I have an abiding memory of a junior school history project where a friend brought in a caveman modelled from an Action Man made hairy from the clippings from his dad's armpit. At least, he said that it was from his armpit. This was before Action Man was manufactured in a hairy version.
Yes, used to collect the shavings from my old electric razor. End result looked crap so I gave up. I also went back to wet shaving as you get a much better and closer shave.
 

Bad CO

Admin
However, I have also read that the navy got first call on the best quality bronze for their guns.

HMS Victory had iron guns although earlier vessels had bronze ones. It was done as a cost saving measure so some things don't change!

That's a photo of a bronze 42 pdr from the previous incarnation of HMS Victory that sank in 1744. No sign of any paint so I expect they kept them well polished....

20200913 HMS Victory-24.jpg
 
Wow! Sounds most impressive. Wish I'd seen it when I was down the Smoke. I will try to emulate that but without the smoke. By the way, did the guns look Black or Dull Bronze?
HMS Victory had iron guns although earlier vessels had bronze ones. It was done as a cost saving measure so some things don't change!

That's a photo of a bronze 42 pdr from the previous incarnation of HMS Victory that sank in 1744. No sign of any paint so I expect they kept them well polished....

Black it is then @Smeggers... ;)
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
No shift today, so the morning was spent spraying primed on all parts Cannon related. The Leader of the Opposition (aka Mrs Smeg) has a hospital appointment this morning, so that gave all painted and primed pieces time to dry. I gave the "Snotty" another coat of Navy Blue on his coat and that and a finish coat on the Powder Monkey, again in Navy Blue.
On return from hospital, Missus ok, just a CT Scan; I starting filling some of the joins around the Powder Monkey's arms and his waist, using the Artist's Modelling Paste. Little tip. If you want a stiffer consistency of modelling paste squirt some onto some scrap card and spread it out evenly. Leave it in the open air and it will be ok to handle in a couple of hours.
I've started assembling the Powder Monkey. All is going ok at the moment, with finishing touches to be added next time I get some time off
IMG_20201126_183935.jpg


I've also started putting the Marine together. Fixing the collar onto the jacket is fairly easy, but fixing the flapping coat side is a different matter. After several false starts, I finally realised I was trying to put it on upside-down! Silly Arrse! Once I'd got it right, everything went together well. I've found there is a need for a line of filler where the jacket side meets the jacket. At the moment, there is more White on the jacket than Red, but at least it can be remedied.
IMG_20201126_184030.jpg

I have hit on a problem though. The queue or pigtail on the back of the Marine is moulded to look as if it is wrapped in cloth. I cannot find any references to this, so I'm asking the History and uniform buffs if the can shed any light on this. Was the Queue wrapped and if so with what? Also, what colour was the wrapping? I would appreciate any assistance, thank you.

IMG_20201126_183919.jpg

Apart from the Navy Blue on the "Snotty's" coat and hat, I haven't done anything else to him. The box-art shows him armed with a sword, but I understood Midshipman were armed with a dirk. I would think some of the Navy's swords would be too heavy for some of the younger Midshipmen.
I'm on 1400-2200 for the next two nights, so I'll pick up again on Sunday.
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Firstly this was on FB the other day.
AC5450FF-0E5D-477B-B12A-B89F8233ED63.jpeg
Secondly, buy the time of Trafalgar a lot of the ships were equipping the guns with Flintlock mechanism. These were triggered by lanyards used by the Gun Captain, his number two would have lindstock to hand in case of a misfire.
65CEA6F4-9B30-4D1B-B1D2-49B1D8D34226.jpeg
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
As promised, I spent a good few hours today on the build. First job was giving the gun barrel a coat of Black and then left to dry. More work to be done later today. I have assembled the Powder Monkey and have been a little disappointed that he is almost the same size as the Marine. I've added his wooden case full of powder, painted Burnt Umber and then a coat of Wood Grain. It wasn't too hard attaching the hands holding the powder cask. The feet were also easy enough to fit, although I did reduce them by 3mm. I had already reduced the trouser legs by the same, hoping to give a definite height differential.
IMG_20201129_210636.jpg

As can be seen by the above picture, the Marine has also come along. Let's and arms have been fitted along with the spar he is using to assist moving a gun. I've filled all joints with Artist's Modelling Paste and left the model to dry for a while. The Modelling Paste forms a crust as it dries which enables early painting. At the moment the Jacket is just one coat of Vermillion, but there are a few more tints to go.
The Midshipman's Sword has become a bit of a Nemesis for me. I haven't been looking forward to doing it as there is very little to your the hilt to the blade. Biting the bullet, I drilled a couple of small holes (0.25mm) in the top of the hilt and then carved turnout to make a hole for the blade. This was about 1.5mm deep but was enough to insert the blade and superglue it in place. The blade has been painted Natural Steel, with the hilt painted in Brass. What part of the handle that is visible has been given a coat of Semi-Gloss Black.
IMG_20201129_220011.jpg

IMG_20201129_220030.jpg

Sorry about the quality of the pictures
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Prior to finishing tonight, I had previously dotted a coat of Bright Yellow onto the Midshipman's and Powder Monkey's buttons; I now gave the Mid a set of Old Gold buttons and Brass buttons for the Powder Monkey. The Mid also got his first coat of Grey Black on his shoes and sword scabbard. I'll give them a dry-brush of sepia brown later.
IMG_20201129_210701.jpg

I also gave the Mid's waistcoat a coat of Ivory, this will later have Gold Buttons.
The cannon barrel has been given a dry-brushing of Bronze to show a little of it's original metal.
IMG_20201129_212942.jpg

I would value any comments.
 
@Smeggers Further to @Bad CO post.
The iron barrels* were painted using a paint mixture of lamp black and carnauba wax thinned with turpentine - so they probably had a slight sheen before prolonged action but would be very black - actually Lamp Black oil paint is probably spot on.

* Many big guns would have been cast at Low Moor near Bradford - look for 'LM' on the trunnion end.
Due to the industrial revolution we'd perfected large single pours of homogenous iron unlike continental guns which often had multiple pours and therefore, inconsistencies which required a slower rate of fire to avoid the barrel exploding.
 
@Smeggers Further to @Bad CO post.
The iron barrels* were painted using a paint mixture of lamp black and carnauba wax thinned with turpentine - so they probably had a slight sheen before prolonged action but would be very black - actually Lamp Black oil paint is probably spot on.

* Many big guns would have been cast at Low Moor near Bradford - look for 'LM' on the trunnion end.
Due to the industrial revolution we'd perfected large single pours of homogenous iron unlike continental guns which often had multiple pours and therefore, inconsistencies which required a slower rate of fire to avoid the barrel exploding.
Bugger beaten to it, after around 1780 RN started to use Iron guns. As paddyplanty said cast at Low Moor and designed by a ex Artillery Officer by the name of Bloomfield.
At the same time the flintlock mechanism, started being used through out the Navy.
They came at the same time as the new Iron guns, but couldn’t be retro fitted to the old Bronze guns.
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
@Smeggers Further to @Bad CO post.
The iron barrels* were painted using a paint mixture of lamp black and carnauba wax thinned with turpentine - so they probably had a slight sheen before prolonged action but would be very black - actually Lamp Black oil paint is probably spot on.

* Many big guns would have been cast at Low Moor near Bradford - look for 'LM' on the trunnion end.
Due to the industrial revolution we'd perfected large single pours of homogenous iron unlike continental guns which often had multiple pours and therefore, inconsistencies which required a slower rate of fire to avoid the barrel exploding.
Bugger beaten to it, after around 1780 RN started to use Iron guns. As paddyplanty said cast at Low Moor and designed by a ex Artillery Officer by the name of Bloomfield.
At the same time the flintlock mechanism, started being used through out the Navy.
They came at the same time as the new Iron guns, but couldn’t be retro fitted to the old Bronze guns.
Thanks for the feedback guys. As I have a flintlock mechanism to attach to the cannon, I'm going to have to rethink my metals. Curses, foiled again! Back to the drawing board.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. As I have a flintlock mechanism to attach to the cannon, I'm going to have to rethink my metals. Curses, foiled again! Back to the drawing board.
Interestingly, when they discovered the wreck of the previous HMS Victory. It was discovered that all the guns were Bronze and the guns on the lower gun deck were 42 pounders.
 

Latest Threads

Top