Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by rattusvirtualis, Apr 26, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. I expect to get slated for this, but I feel it must be said.

    Did Pte Beharry REALLY deserve the VC?

    My reason for asking is that although he was very brave under fire (and at no time do I attempt to denigrate his character) his actions had more than a little about self preservation as well as saving the lives of his comrades.

    In World War 2, a pilot was seriously injured but brought the plane back safely and in the process saved the lives of the rest of his crew. He was put forward for and denied the VC because 'his actions, although courageous had an element of self preservation' and therefore he was ineligible.

    Does anyone else see the similarity?

    Call me an old cynic if you want, but I consider that the award of the VC to Pte Beharry was an exercise in PR rather than a genuine gesture to reward him for his bravery.

    An insult to Pte Beharry and the institution of the VC itself.


    I reiterate - Did Pte Beharry REALLY deserve the VC?



    Taking cover now as targets will fall when hit.
  2. Were you in the vehicle with him at the time? If not, what the fcuk do you know about what was deserved. At any time he could have shut down and waited for someone else to do something. Please now walk away in jerks.
  3. What newspaper are you from?
  4. Didn't he go back and get his oppos a second or third time? Personally, I don't like the sound of bullets whizzing past, let alone RPG rounds, and I reckon he should have had 2 VCs and free beer for life.
  5. Yes he did - end of discussion
  6. Last year I heard a rumour of a bayonet charge against an insurgent ambush. If this really happened I am surprised that they did not receive a gong. It would have involved stabbing the enemy in the guts with a sharp bit of steel which I suppose may be a bit un-PC for publicity and hence not worthy of a VC? Did anyone else hear about this? It seems odd that all of the big medals given out for TELIC seem to involve saving peoples lives instead of killing lots of enemy.
  7. Nice comparison, but did the aforementioned pilot rescue the rear gunner, climb out and extinguish the fire in his engines before deflecting all of the flack by using his body?
  8. G3Ops, thanks, I'll go and find a copy and get back in my box!
  9. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Another Bayonet Charge - PWRR again - resulted in several Gallantry medals being awarded - same Unit and close by to where the VC was won.

    And yes, he deserves it. End of Story. Go fish for stories elsewhere.
  10. Of course he deserves it. He is a very brave individual, supporting his muckers and not fearing any danger. Oh, and he's still injured.

    The VC is the nation's highest award for extreme bravery. The VC, inscribed "For valour", is given for an act in the presence of the enemy.

    Think what Private Johnson Gideon Beharry did - would you like to do that?? Read the summary of the incidents and his citation and make up your mind:

    Pte Beharry receives the Victoria Cross for two separate acts of outstanding gallantry of the highest order whilst based in Al Amarah, Maysan Province, Iraq, in 2004.

    In the first incident on 1 May 2004, Pte Beharry was driving the Platoon Commander’s Warrior armoured vehicle that had been called to the assistance of a foot patrol caught in a series of ambushes. The Warrior vehicle was hit by multiple rocket propelled grenades, causing damage and resulting in the loss of radio communications. The platoon commander, the vehicle’s gunner and a number of other soldiers in the vehicle were injured. Pte Beharry showed initiative and great courage driving through the ambush, taking his own crew and leading five other Warriors to safety. He then demonstrated outstanding bravery by extracting his wounded colleagues from the vehicle, all the time exposed to further enemy fire. He is cited on this occasion for “valour of the highest order”.

    Whilst back on duty on 11 June 2004, Pte Beharry was again driving the lead Warrior vehicle of his platoon through Al Amarah when this vehicle was ambushed. A rocket propelled grenade hit the vehicle and Pte Beharry received serious head injuries. Other rockets hit the vehicle incapacitating his commander and injuring several of the crew. Despite his very serious injuries, from which he is still recovering, Pte Beharry showed great strength of character, taking control of his vehicle and driving it out of the ambush area before losing consciousness. His citation reads:

    “For his repeated extreme gallantry and unquestioned valour, despite intense direct attacks, personal injury and damage to his vehicle in the face of relentless enemy action, Private Beharry deserves the highest possible recognition.”

    You were right rattusvirtualis, you have been slated. :evil: Suppose your next line will be about PR and the colour of his skin. You can go through what he has been through if you like.

    Have a look at these photos and other useful info.
  11. Certainly the original of the award made it sound like "Got attacked, drove away - few days later did the same".

    However, reading the fuller citation made it pretty plain how well he had behaved, and there was plenty of praise from others involved. I have no doubt it was well deserved.

    Nonetheless, past awards (or omissions) have intrigued me.

    One is two RN types who defused a bomb (or two) in the outer casing of their submarine. No immediate enemy activity - so I would look on this as a survival act as crew could have been evacuated. Loss of vessel would have been significant, and award was given even as someone high up argued that a 250lb bomb was present and could be considered to be hostile/enemy.

    The other was an RAF crew in (IIRC) a Mosquito, who were testing out a new type of radar with which they hoped to combat Kraut night-fighting arrangements. They flew around, collecting various info and effectively trailing their coat - the only way to know what they thought they knew (copyright Von Rumsfeld) was to get bounced. They did this more than once to prove it all - 300 miles from safety and lightly armed (to allow the extra kit & boffin).

    Anyone with more info on the RAF reason for not forwarding/backing a case for VC please share it.
  12. MOD's - give that hack the delete button.... recon he's never done anything for this country.

    Pte Beharry VC.... nuff said... well done fella
  13. hack alert!!!!!!! He gets his award tomorrow. You need to go to hack school
  14. A wrtiiten account of an action can never re-inact the event in the same way as it happened. From the written account he certainly deserves a medal - and a pretty big one at that! But for those who do not realise it, the award was given nearly a year after the events, and that shows that the decision was not taken lightly. This case may have been borderline, but I am pleased for him, and also that he is a common squaddie who has admitted on TV that he misses his job and can't wait to get back to work!

    I am biased but objective about this. I am not or have been a member of the PWRR (my handle kinda gives that away), so it's not a PR thing. I think it was a deserved award for two outstanding acts of heroism. At no time did he think of himself, but of his mates. He nearly died for this, and put his family and mates in total anguish about his survival. These are not the acts of a selfish person with only self preservation in mind.

    Yes, I do think that the award was correctly given.
  15. I see where you are coming from but has already been said, the fact that he went BACK to his burning warrior, would show that is was not an act of self-preservation....