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VICTORIA CROSS

#1
I expect to get slated for this, but I feel it must be said.

Did Pte Beharry REALLY deserve the VC?

My reason for asking is that although he was very brave under fire (and at no time do I attempt to denigrate his character) his actions had more than a little about self preservation as well as saving the lives of his comrades.

In World War 2, a pilot was seriously injured but brought the plane back safely and in the process saved the lives of the rest of his crew. He was put forward for and denied the VC because 'his actions, although courageous had an element of self preservation' and therefore he was ineligible.

Does anyone else see the similarity?

Call me an old cynic if you want, but I consider that the award of the VC to Pte Beharry was an exercise in PR rather than a genuine gesture to reward him for his bravery.

An insult to Pte Beharry and the institution of the VC itself.

+++++++++++++++

I reiterate - Did Pte Beharry REALLY deserve the VC?

Discuss.

+++++++++++++++

Taking cover now as targets will fall when hit.
 
#2
Were you in the vehicle with him at the time? If not, what the fcuk do you know about what was deserved. At any time he could have shut down and waited for someone else to do something. Please now walk away in jerks.
 
#4
Didn't he go back and get his oppos a second or third time? Personally, I don't like the sound of bullets whizzing past, let alone RPG rounds, and I reckon he should have had 2 VCs and free beer for life.
 
#6
Last year I heard a rumour of a bayonet charge against an insurgent ambush. If this really happened I am surprised that they did not receive a gong. It would have involved stabbing the enemy in the guts with a sharp bit of steel which I suppose may be a bit un-PC for publicity and hence not worthy of a VC? Did anyone else hear about this? It seems odd that all of the big medals given out for TELIC seem to involve saving peoples lives instead of killing lots of enemy.
 
#7
Nice comparison, but did the aforementioned pilot rescue the rear gunner, climb out and extinguish the fire in his engines before deflecting all of the flack by using his body?
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#9
Another Bayonet Charge - PWRR again - resulted in several Gallantry medals being awarded - same Unit and close by to where the VC was won.

And yes, he deserves it. End of Story. Go fish for stories elsewhere.
 
#10
Of course he deserves it. He is a very brave individual, supporting his muckers and not fearing any danger. Oh, and he's still injured.

The VC is the nation's highest award for extreme bravery. The VC, inscribed "For valour", is given for an act in the presence of the enemy.

Think what Private Johnson Gideon Beharry did - would you like to do that?? Read the summary of the incidents and his citation and make up your mind:

Pte Beharry receives the Victoria Cross for two separate acts of outstanding gallantry of the highest order whilst based in Al Amarah, Maysan Province, Iraq, in 2004.

In the first incident on 1 May 2004, Pte Beharry was driving the Platoon Commander’s Warrior armoured vehicle that had been called to the assistance of a foot patrol caught in a series of ambushes. The Warrior vehicle was hit by multiple rocket propelled grenades, causing damage and resulting in the loss of radio communications. The platoon commander, the vehicle’s gunner and a number of other soldiers in the vehicle were injured. Pte Beharry showed initiative and great courage driving through the ambush, taking his own crew and leading five other Warriors to safety. He then demonstrated outstanding bravery by extracting his wounded colleagues from the vehicle, all the time exposed to further enemy fire. He is cited on this occasion for “valour of the highest order”.

Whilst back on duty on 11 June 2004, Pte Beharry was again driving the lead Warrior vehicle of his platoon through Al Amarah when this vehicle was ambushed. A rocket propelled grenade hit the vehicle and Pte Beharry received serious head injuries. Other rockets hit the vehicle incapacitating his commander and injuring several of the crew. Despite his very serious injuries, from which he is still recovering, Pte Beharry showed great strength of character, taking control of his vehicle and driving it out of the ambush area before losing consciousness. His citation reads:

“For his repeated extreme gallantry and unquestioned valour, despite intense direct attacks, personal injury and damage to his vehicle in the face of relentless enemy action, Private Beharry deserves the highest possible recognition.”


You were right rattusvirtualis, you have been slated. :evil: Suppose your next line will be about PR and the colour of his skin. You can go through what he has been through if you like.

Have a look at these photos and other useful info.

http://news.mod.uk/news/press/news_headline_story.asp?newsItem_id=3169
 
#11
Certainly the original of the award made it sound like "Got attacked, drove away - few days later did the same".

However, reading the fuller citation made it pretty plain how well he had behaved, and there was plenty of praise from others involved. I have no doubt it was well deserved.

Nonetheless, past awards (or omissions) have intrigued me.

One is two RN types who defused a bomb (or two) in the outer casing of their submarine. No immediate enemy activity - so I would look on this as a survival act as crew could have been evacuated. Loss of vessel would have been significant, and award was given even as someone high up argued that a 250lb bomb was present and could be considered to be hostile/enemy.

The other was an RAF crew in (IIRC) a Mosquito, who were testing out a new type of radar with which they hoped to combat Kraut night-fighting arrangements. They flew around, collecting various info and effectively trailing their coat - the only way to know what they thought they knew (copyright Von Rumsfeld) was to get bounced. They did this more than once to prove it all - 300 miles from safety and lightly armed (to allow the extra kit & boffin).

Anyone with more info on the RAF reason for not forwarding/backing a case for VC please share it.
 
#12
MOD's - give that hack the delete button.... recon he's never done anything for this country.

Pte Beharry VC.... nuff said... well done fella
 
#14
A wrtiiten account of an action can never re-inact the event in the same way as it happened. From the written account he certainly deserves a medal - and a pretty big one at that! But for those who do not realise it, the award was given nearly a year after the events, and that shows that the decision was not taken lightly. This case may have been borderline, but I am pleased for him, and also that he is a common squaddie who has admitted on TV that he misses his job and can't wait to get back to work!

I am biased but objective about this. I am not or have been a member of the PWRR (my handle kinda gives that away), so it's not a PR thing. I think it was a deserved award for two outstanding acts of heroism. At no time did he think of himself, but of his mates. He nearly died for this, and put his family and mates in total anguish about his survival. These are not the acts of a selfish person with only self preservation in mind.

Yes, I do think that the award was correctly given.
 
#15
I see where you are coming from but has already been said, the fact that he went BACK to his burning warrior, would show that is was not an act of self-preservation....
 
#16
Whiffler, if I may take you up on one of yours:

"One is two RN types who defused a bomb (or two) in the outer casing of their submarine. No immediate enemy activity - so I would look on this as a survival act as crew could have been evacuated. Loss of vessel would have been significant, and award was given even as someone high up argued that a 250lb bomb was present and could be considered to be hostile/enemy"

In fact when it went to the board there was discussion, but the final comment was "5 miles from Malta on a clear night and 2 unesploded bombs, thats quite enough ene,y for me - He gets it!"

There was a very good obit on one of the 2 a couple of years ago.

As for Pte B, may he never have to buy a beer again, and I would like to see the worm who originiated this thread show half the courage and bravery!
 
#18
This is a contentious thread/posting. But it does deserve a sensible response.

The day the announcements were made public, it was as I recall a Friday, I, having dressed, was crunching my cornflakes reading the Torygraph when I saw the citations etc about all of 1PWRR's gongs and shot back upstairs to put my PWRR Regimental tie on ready to face the world with pride. I confess to an uncontrolable bout of chin wobbling whilst reading young Beharry's citation. Incredible. Fantastic. Outstanding. The kids asked Mummy why Daddy was crying. I wrote that day to Matt Maer to congratulate him and his Bn for their outstanding performance. This was all most awkward because I am implacably against British involvement in this illegal war. However, the deeds were done, and needed to be recognised. I personally am thrilled that Beharry got the top gong.

Now then, last week I received a letter from someone 'fairly senior' in theatre who wrote '.....1 PWRR did indeed do well with the hons and awards. I have to say that quite a lot was due to Matt Maer's excellent PR machine: his fellows had no worse a time than the Cheshires, who got next to nothing. You will note that the VC winner was black. Had he been white, would he have got it? I leave it to you to judge.'

Phew! Very tricky. But, as far as I'm concerned it's 'Well done Private Beharry VC!'
 
#19
Now then, last week I received a letter from someone 'fairly senior' in theatre who wrote
As Private Beharry is still convalescing, I am more than happy to kick this 'Fairly senior' c*nt in the face on his behalf. I suspect I am not alone.

As regards the first poster, I have seen virtually verbatim sentiments expressed on the BNP and Stormfront websites. Which are you from?
 

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