victim mentality

#1
I`ve just watched an article on sky news in which M.P. Boris Johnson is basically about to get lynched in liverpool for the comments he made about the murdered worker Ken Bigly

He accused the liverpool people of being hooked on grief and having a victim mentality,also he had a pop at hillsbourgh

Now i dont wish to sound like a heartless cnut but i think he might have a point on this one.Every time a bill oddie gets the good news we hear the bear minimum or nothing at all and they certainly dont get a minute silence at a football match

Its bad enough that a council in wales didnt have their flag at half mast for one of their fallen boys,but when people jump down your throat for speaking your mind about why he was there,and lets face it it was for the cash,it makes my blood boil.However if your a certain muslim cleric you can get away with making all sorts of anti british veiws

Sorry if this posts all over the place (And my spelling !) but so much was going on in my head when i heard about this that ive probably not got my point over to well

I do send my condolencies out to the Bigly family,but dont forget the other victims out there and at home
 
#2
And i`ll probably hear the old chestnut about civvies being more newsworthy than squaddies because its their job to go over there and fight.

I overheard some students in heywood make this sort of comment and belive me i really wanted to give them both barrels :twisted:
 
#3
it's been becoming more prevalent in british society as a whole in the last few years , since that blonde hooker got wasted in the tunnel in paris , that was frankly an embarrasing display of "i'm much sadder than you , look at MEEEEEE" i'm not some heartless pr*ck , but i do feel mr johnson has a point (much as it loathes me to say it , the tory cnut) it seems the jerry springer/trisha generation cant do "restrained emotion" anymore everythings got to be like the soap opera riddled world most of them occupy!! ....... blimey , it's a bit early to be ranting , but there you go!!!
 
#4
You feel like shouting get agrip there is expressing for someones loss
and then going over the top.I think johnson had some valid points hope he turns up drunk and tells scouser jokes :lol:
 
#5
I like Boris - he speaks his mind and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. And in a free society, that's his right. However, he has committed thoughtcrime and will now be publically dragged over the coals. I find this abhorrent - I was watching the BBC news this morning, and apparently he is going to apologise to "the people". This sounds like something out of Communist-era Pravda: "Comrade Boris apologised to The People for his ill-concieved remark about our fallen Comrade, whose loss The People feel as if he were their brother [or should that be "brudder"?]. The People were grateful for his apology, but nevertheless have still beseeched the Revolutionary Troika to apply the strictest penalty for such counter-revolutionary activity" etc etc etc...

I also spotted this morning that Orwell's "ritualised hatred" is being used as a tool of this govt against such dissenters as Boris, through the medium of the Vox Pops...
 
#6
This subject was part of a phone in on Radio 2 (vine) yesterday and someone said people don't understand that in Liverpool an act against one Liverpudlian is an act against all and that we are just one big family.

Have to admit it was some time before I could straighten up from laughing, - you rob, cheat, kill, rape FROM YOUR FAMILY!!
 
#7
Rudolph_Hucker said:
This subject was part of a phone in on Radio 2 (vine) yesterday and someone said people don't understand that in Liverpool an act against one Liverpudlian is an act against all and that we are just one big family.

Have to admit it was some time before I could straighten up from laughing, - you rob, cheat, kill, rape FROM YOUR FAMILY!!
Maybe it's just like those servicemen refusing to go to the sandpit to fight against their "muslim brothers", when the "muslim brothers" have been fighting each other in various wars for, oh, about 1200 years? Iran-Iraq war anyone?
 
#8
you only have to go back to our grandparents to see a generation who knows what experiencing loss is REALLY all about , they really must wonder sometimes if it was all worth the effort when they look around at the weak lilly livered , rude , thick worthless generations they fought for, blubbing into their pot noodles over someone they didn't even know. :roll:
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#9
shortfuse said:
you only have to go back to our grandparents to see a generation who knows what experiencing loss is REALLY all about , they really must wonder sometimes if it was all worth the effort when they look around at the weak lilly livered , rude , thick worthless generations they fought for, blubbing into their pot noodles over someone they didn't even know. :roll:
Well said Shortfuse, I think that sums up the thoughts of many of us.
 
#10
This really is quite amusing. The one good thing about politicians is that if they say something that personally offends you you vote them or their mate out at the next election. I don't suppose there are many Tory pollies in the republic of Liverpool but there you go.

Howard is actually missing a trick here. Perhaps if his party were more outspoken and reflected the communities real feelings he might be in with shot but instead he and his group of mongs are likely to hand it on a plate to BLiar.
 
#11
The Spectator had a point, and was quite brave in attempting to describe Liverpudlians as other than cheeky chappy, what-a-lot-they've-been-through-but-still-come-up-smiling types.

The only people who can actually grieve for Ken Bigley are his family, and those who actually knew him. Others can only sympathise with their loss, much as we sympathise with the families and friends of fallen soldiers, but many seem unable to see the difference between true grief and sympathy.

The reference to Hillsborough was interesting. On a Home Office course I attended on the psychological aspects of major incidents one presenter - who had actually been present at Hillsborough and subsequently was involved in dealing with some of the victims and their relatives - described how some social workers in Liverpool had, far from helping professionally, become so involved with the families that they were actually prolonging the grieving process, and refused to accept that what they were doing was neither appropriate or professional. It doesn't seem to have happened elsewhere, and the conclusion was that Scousers are indeed rather precious about maintaining their victim status.
 
#13
By the way does anyone know how Boris is intending to apologies to the peoples republic? The moderates probably aren't interested so an impressive gathering of some of the harder elements are likely to turn up. Please God let there be a TV camera present. Perhaps this is Howards gift to the Liverpudlians; a token sacrifice. The massed wailing and slapping of heads will provide the music bed with loud and barely understandable abuse as the voice over.

Oh boy I can't wait.

If our Boris gets out of this without being skiffed he gets my vote.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#14
Birdie_Numnums said:
Howard is actually missing a trick here. Perhaps if his party were more outspoken and reflected the communities real feelings he might be in with shot but instead he and his group of mongs are likely to hand it on a plate to BLiar.
I think you're right. The Tories aren't going to win seats in Liverpool so they might as well tell it like it is: 'All Scousers are whining, welfare-obsessed, pikey car thieves.' That's certainly something we can all agree on :D
 
#15
chickenpunk said:
Birdie_Numnums said:
Howard is actually missing a trick here. Perhaps if his party were more outspoken and reflected the communities real feelings he might be in with shot but instead he and his group of mongs are likely to hand it on a plate to BLiar.
I think you're right. The Tories aren't going to win seats in Liverpool so they might as well tell it like it is: 'All Scousers are whining, welfare-obsessed, pikey car thieves.' That's certainly something we can all agree on :D
Went there the other week, I saw the traditional greeting as I drove by the docks, a burning car 8O Apparently, they're going to use two crossed burning cars above a battered child surmounted by a permed wig as their new coat of arms 8O 8O
 
#16
ViroBono said:
The Spectator had a point, and was quite brave in attempting to describe Liverpudlians as other than cheeky chappy, what-a-lot-they've-been-through-but-still-come-up-smiling types.

The only people who can actually grieve for Ken Bigley are his family, and those who actually knew him. Others can only sympathise with their loss, much as we sympathise with the families and friends of fallen soldiers, but many seem unable to see the difference between true grief and sympathy.

The reference to Hillsborough was interesting. On a Home Office course I attended on the psychological aspects of major incidents one presenter - who had actually been present at Hillsborough and subsequently was involved in dealing with some of the victims and their relatives - described how some social workers in Liverpool had, far from helping professionally, become so involved with the families that they were actually prolonging the grieving process, and refused to accept that what they were doing was neither appropriate or professional. It doesn't seem to have happened elsewhere, and the conclusion was that Scousers are indeed rather precious about maintaining their victim status.
Well put.

I can, however, understand people getting a bit neurotic when they can imagine the event happening to their own ie Soham etc but I think it's unfair for us to project our own fears and turn the victims and their families into "celebrities" around whom we wail and gnash our teeth.

Makes one wonder to what lengths some of these people have to go when they are genuinely grieving one of their own - they've already used up all extremes of emotional demonstration and must have to rise to quite giddy heights. 8O

And you're right about the counsellors. I got bowled a curve ball a few years back and was sent to one. If you're trying to put your life back together having some silly bint trying to get you to wallow in every detail instead of just accepting it's happened and getting on with it is unhelpful. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it felt as if the Emotion Police were trying to get me to conform to the standard procedure. Another case of tick-box mentality and the emasculation of the populace by getting the "professionals" to take over rather than encouraging people to take responsibility for themselves. Not saying counselling is always a bad thing, just suggesting that maybe it's more of a last resort than the first port of call.

Bring back the Stiff Upper Lip!
 
#18
BORIS FOR PM - A BIT OF HONESTY IS WHAT WE NEED
Mind you anyone would look honest at the side of the current shower we have in parliament
:)
 
#19
Counselling is not always pink and fluffy; some approaches, such as Gestalt therapy, can be robust to say the least, though it is certainly true that some counsellors fit the stereotype dangly-earring image (note: I do not wear earrings, drive a 2CV, read the Grauniad etc.). The aim of counselling is to enable the individual to find their own solution to their problem, by understanding why they feel and act as they do, and taking responsibility for themselves. It's not about telling people how to live their lives, though some counsellors do seem to take a stunningly patronising approach, which is deeply unprofessional.

The problem post-Hillsborough was that most of those involved with relatives and victims were not trained counsellors, but social workers unqualified in the area, and they were unable to distance themselves emotionally. Very much a case of a little knowledge being dangerous. Of course, no-one dares to criticise them because they have now become victims in their own right, having absorbed (through poor practice and no clinical supervision), the problems of those they sought to help, and seem to relish the role as associate members of the Hillsborough Victim's Club. In the case of Liverpool after Hillsborough there seemed to be a marked reluctance to let the situation settle naturally, much of which was stoked, unsurprisingly, by the media and politicians who know doubt saw profit in it for themselves.
 
#20
strikes me that counselling is a massive growth industry , and i would imagine they're paid by the session , not really in their best interest to tell you to "chin up perkins lad" and get on with it , much better for them if you start by telling them if you had enough toys as a kid , and work forwards from there until you realise just how sh*tty your life has been and what would you have done without counselling (apart from getting the f*ck on with it!!!)
 

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