Veterans In Prison

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Mr_Fingerz, Jul 1, 2011.

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  1. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

  2. Deprivation of drink??!!
  3. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer


    Mayhap I should have said "poverty and alcohol abuse".
  4. It did get the Outrage bus on stand by and I wondered if they were going to do a spin off...plumbers in prison or teachers in prison....or unemployed in prison.

    But the work ticket and keys are now handed back into MT and lets go for a pint.

    It is suprising though the article of acknowledging their wrong isnt a two liner ten word apology they normally do.
  5. In the latest SSAFA Scope (our quarterly bulletin) it says that the Defence Analytical Service Agency (DASA) presented findings from a report which looked into the number of veterans in Prison. They estimate that 3.5% of the current prison population is ex service, however this does not include reservists or national service as these statistics aren't held.
  6. I know quite a lot of ex squaddies who went to prison - including former NCOs. None of them had ever been to Iraq or Afghanistan, though admittedly some were probably messed up from NI.

    Their incarceration probably had everything to do with the fact that they had entered an essentially lawless, violent and very intense squaddie culture at an impressionable age - and were heavy drinkers. Some of them were also fairly rootless and returned to civilian life without many stabilising influences; they were natural risk takers, had an inbuilt contempt for civilian authority and found day to day life frustrating and unfulfilling. Add a drink problem to that equation and you've got a disaster waiting to happen.

    Needless to say most ex soldiers don't go to prison (and many that do are no doubt lazy, dishonest or unpleasant individuals). If you prefer crime to work; you'd better be good at crime.....

    Nonetheless, in my experience social/psychological/emotional problems, combined with heavy drinking, are the biggest reasons for ex soldiers going off the rails. There are many times more evading arrest or getting non custodial sentences than there are actually in prison. I suspect that it adds up to a lot of blighted and troubled lives. Not something you're likely to think about at the age of 18, when you're drinking 100 DM worth of cheap booze every weekend, and trying to keep a straight face when you get marched in front of the OC with the other miscreants every Monday.

    Drug and alcohol education and helping people to identify and deal with problems at an earlier stage has to be the way ahead.
  7. When I was an OC, I had a few soldiers who, had they not been in the Army, would almost certainly have been in prison. No doubt some of them have since returned to civilian life and ended up in the clink but it wont be a result of their service life, it will be despite all the help, advice, and second chances the Army gave them.
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  8. There's probably more ex forces people serving as prison guards than prisoners.
  9. Next question: is there a link between military service, deprivation and drink?

    Surely it's bloody obvious there's a link - the military have always offered opportunity to men from the wrong side of the tracks with a taste for risk & adventure. You're quite likely to find drunks in pubs or god botherers in church too.

    How do they decide these things or are they happy to take the money & say what they think you want to hear? Experts eh, I've shit 'em!

    Anyway, who gives a bollox why. If squaddies are over represented in clink, then that's reason enough to target some support at them, when they're demobbed, to save some dosh in the long run.

    Mind you, ex squaddies are also over represented amongst the warders, so maybe it's a self supporting resettlement scheme.

    .... 'n that Nutting bloke is a Robin Day Walt!

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  10. And probaly more ex service in the Police forces. Interesting to note the age ranges discussed in the article. An era, from experience where we served in NI, where few could avoid the aftermath of high profile, very messy incidents. There was no, or very little, recognition of PTSD just a get on with it attitude. This works at the time, but thirty years later, over a couple of pints, even just watching the telly, some memories hit you like a kick in the bollocks. Not all those in our penal system should be in prison, but there are limited options to treat them any other way. It shouldn't happen is the easy answer, but with cut backs I fear twenty to thirty years from now, a new crop of ex military loon's will be locked up and become the subject of another Guardian "letters to the editor"!.
  11. Hector, are you saying that people committing crimes and blaming it on PTSD should be given leniency or that there should be a better support network for ex-forces bods with mental health issues to try and help stop them getting into a situation where they might do something that could land them in jail?
  12. So do I. Mainly for theft, fraud, drugs, assaults & woundings and a myriad of other anti-social activities. Basically, for the same offences committed by a number of civvies I know. Why is there such a need to 'glamourise' squaddies who can't keep their fingers out of their mate's wallets or who become extremely violent when drunk? They're not victims.
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  13. From hands on experience, more support. Most people with PTSD dont know it, particularly if it's not too impactive on their lives. However, after it becomes embedded in you, any other traumatic event can build upon it, like adding bricks to a wall. I think that more recently, ex services, from the more recent conflicts, tend to receive more support and I understand the quality of that support is good. However the older bods are very much at the back of the queue and only appear in the scheme when they appear above the visible social parapet. I appreciate that some crime's and offences committed by ex service people have nothing to do with service related issues or their"service attitude or training". Some will kill, rape, steal and so on just because they can and most of them have had no training whatsoever. There are some blokes out there from WW 2 that are really screwed up, but are completely overlooked. PTSD is never an excuse, in my opinion, to offset the gravity, or ones involvement in any offence.
  14. I used to work in the prisons as a C.A.R.A.T (counselling, Assessment, Referral, Advice, Throughcare) Worker, mainly dealing with drug and alcohol related prisoners/crimes. In my experience any ex forces were either not very nice people tro start with anyway but the majority I have to say were there through alcohol related crimes and the biggest crime being that of the one against them - that being homelessness!!! Many were aged between 21-28, joined the forces to start with to find a "family" came out to nothing and nowhere so ended up on the streets. Maybe the government to do more tohelp the housing probs for ex servicemen/women. Many did have trauma from conflicts from NI, Falkland and the first Gulf War but although some say there are charities (over 400 I think i read somewhere) they dont get the same support as our guys are getting now. Once out of the forces you appear to be on your own!!
  15. As with all conflicts, very few were out on the ground and even fewer were involved in the 'aftermath' of anything.