Ventilators causing more harm than good.

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I think you may have mistaken cause and effect here. Yes, 50% of those with COVID who are on ventilators are dying but it's the COVID that's doing that not the ventilation. For people with COVID who need to be ventilated but either can't or don't want to be, the number is a lot closer to 100%
I might readdress it if I go down with the plague.
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
I've already instructed the other half if I end up in hospital, no ventilator whatever happens. Was looking at stats re ventilators and the virus, was pretty grim. That was two weeks ago.
My old workmate from Bombardier/Shorts is in hospital here in Belfast at the minute, induced into a coma, ventilated and on kidney dialysis. It was thought he wouldn't see Saturday morning but now there's small signs that he's starting to improve. I take it his oxygen levels are starting to improve now because of the ventilator.

You get one shot at life, there's no point throwing it away.
 
My old workmate from Bombardier/Shorts is in hospital here in Belfast at the minute, induced into a coma, ventilated and on kidney dialysis. It was thought he wouldn't see Saturday morning but now there's small signs that he's starting to improve. I take it his oxygen levels are starting to improve now because of the ventilator.

You get one shot at life, there's no point throwing it away.
Hope he makes a full recovery, got to die one day though.
 
Hope he makes a full recovery, got to die one day though.
There's no point wishing it away though. They can inject me with rhino spunk if they think my lungs would fill with oxygen for all I give two fcuks about.

The medics know best and at that stage your family will be making the decisions for you based on the medical professionals best knowledge.
 
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There's point wishing it away though. They can inject me with rhino spunk if they think my lungs would fill with oxygen for all I give two fcuks about.

The medics know best and at that stage your family will be making the decisions for you based on the medical professionals best knowledge.

I'm not going to be the person who colects your Rhino essence, so if that's what is needed, I'm afraid you are screwed
 

4(T)

LE
COVID-19 Is racist



I noticed a couple of days ago that a photo of the "first six NHS workers" to pass away were all middle aged BAME.

That could of course simply be a reflection of the demographic make up of the NHS. Still odd.

One wonders if there are any trends in victim types that are being under-reported due to one sensitivity or another? On the same topic, I wondered whether, for example, e-cig or recreational drug use was a factor in some of the younger "no underlying health problems" victims?
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I noticed a couple of days ago that a photo of the "first six NHS workers" to pass away were all middle aged BAME.

That could of course simply be a reflection of the demographic make up of the NHS. Still odd.
The NHS death numbers are probably too small to account for the national trend, but I'd say the two most likely causes of the BAME overrepresentsiton are:

1. Much higher numbers than 13% in the areas with high numbers of COVID cases. COVID is more prevalent in cities where there are more BAME people than average.

2. A much higher rate of multi-family households in certain sections of the BAME community in comparison to the UK average.
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm not going to be the person who colects your Rhino essence, so if that's what is needed, I'm afraid you are screwed
Yes mate. Rhinos are a little like private doctors. They are thick skinned and charge a lot.
 
FFS the conspiracy theorist are having a field day with this “it’s all 5G radio waves, burn down the masts” “drink hot water it washes the virus out” etc. There is no definitive answer to the problem just let those that know a bit more about it function without prats like the OP getting in the way. And done get me started on the ringleader that is Jeremy Vine on the radio or the Uber twat Trump.
 

Slime

LE
I'm a trained nurse so have a very informed view. Most people who have had a general anaesthetic will have been on a ventilator for a short period, maybe hours. So no, ventilators arent designed specifically for comatose patients. Originally ventilators were for surgical procedures. Most ventilators are used for those who are too weak to breathe without assistance, for many reasons. There are several types of ventilation, from positive airway pressure (CPAP) laryngeal mask to full intubation (basically a tube into the windpipe)

OK if you need a ventilator it is because you cannot breathe on your own. This is due to COVID causing pneumonia. . If it is at that stage you are well on the way to being rubber ducked. Its not the ventilator its the disease that causes the problem.

It is very simplistic to say that the lungs are bags of fluids in pneumonia as it is not that accurate, there is fluid in the lungs, but the important thing is that oxygen cannot get to the sacs in the lungs unless you have respiratory pressure. If you cannot breathe on your own then death is 100%. Pushing oxygen into the lungs gives a chance.

That said I am a little surprised that the focus is on ventilators. Certainly we are going to need them, but there are a spectrum of people who are going to need support of some kind, but less than ventilation. The most fortunate are those who have the odd sniffle. The next lot are going to feel awful, with fever and coughing, far worse than any flu. Then those who are suffering respiratory problems but can breathe unaided. This is the category (which I fall into) where things like typical asthma inhalers could be useful, but the press does not focus on this. A steroid inhaler could be immensely useful here. You know, the brown one? The blue one, salbutamol is also a standard treatment for breathlessness, but it works only for a short time. When I have felt breathless, although I am far from asthmatic, I have taken a blast of steroid inhaler and felt better for some hours. What I fear is that this category of patients are going to be ignored but with treatable respiratory issues, and descend into respiratory failure.

The worst categories fall broadly into two parts (and I am speaking very generally here) Pneumonia on its own causing respiratory failure and also sepsis. I suspect that the younger patients who have no underlying conditions who have died have developed sepsis. The latter is the most dangerous, and can cause death within a few hours. This is not a new phenomenon. Sepsis is when the infection is not just the lungs but the whole body and organs just PUFO. Ventilatory support during sepsis is vital, whilst the medics can get to work sorting out getting the other organs working again. Blood transfusion is important* and is a very important reason that if you are OK, donate blood NOW. Difficult if the onus is on self-isolating but we are going to need the red stuff in huge quantities soon.

Would I want to be ventilated if the need arise? I would stick the tube down my own bronchus and squeeze the bag myself!

*Get the crimson in me Jim son!
My non medical, and non science opinion is that ventilators are a priority because the mainstream media have been obsessed with them for a couple of weeks.
At the daily government briefings the usual suspects bang on and on about them, question how many we have, how many we need and try to imply we don’t have enough now. Latterly questions have also been asked about how many we will have in the future, or that the increased amount still won’t be enough.

I have heard several people on radio call ins who seem to equate ventilators with a cure for corona virus, or that being placed on a ventilator will make you better.

As a natural cynic I get the impression that it’s easier for the government to very publicly increase the number of ventilators than to try to explain what they actually not only do, but what they DON’T Do.

We live in times where many believe everything they read on facebook, or think burning 5G* phone masts will stop the virus spreading.

*The media have reported burned masts, but haven’t filled in the details of quite how the arsonists knew if the actual masts were transmitting a 5G signal :)
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
And breathe!
 
We have a ventilator in the kharsi. That certainly helps my respiratory system by transferring the appalling life threatening stench of a curry & beer laden dump to the great outdoors, thereby keeping it out of my lungs.
So climate change is all your fault?
 

Slime

LE
And breathe!
I’m not remotely stressed etc, it’s just an observation. :)
Whatever crisis or big story the media latch onto they like to have a stand out feature they can report on.

Just think how often you heard about UK troops troops being on ops without body armour or correct kit. Those 30 year old mantras are still repeated by many in the MSM even today.
 
The NHS death numbers are probably too small to account for the national trend, but I'd say the two most likely causes of the BAME overrepresentsiton are:

1. Much higher numbers than 13% in the areas with high numbers of COVID cases. COVID is more prevalent in cities where there are more BAME people than average.

2. A much higher rate of multi-family households in certain sections of the BAME community in comparison to the UK average.
I did post something a while back about what I had observed (no scientific or statistical basis to it). I work in a high proportion BAME area (over 50% I believe). I noticed that certain groups were much less likely to follow the social distancing recommendations in force at that time (pre-lockdown). Whether that is cultural, ignorance or just plain 'f*** you I'm alright Jack' I would not know. Now would be about the time when that failure to separate comes home to roost.

It is also entirely possible that the BAME group have a higher proportion of people who cannot work from home, so they are therefore more likely to catch CV.
 

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