Venezuela about to go down the tubes...a lesson for Corbyn and the Labour Party perhaps?

MH17 should I say more or will you come out with your usual rubbish.
This issue should be discussed elsewhere. Still details of the official investigation are being kept secret.
 
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I see you skillfully miss the point.

The point is not about MH17 it is about your inability to accept any facts contrary to your argument, no matter how widely they are accepted by others or how much proof is presented that your view is wrong. You will come out with all sorts of drivel to support your claim no matter how unlikely or how unreliable the sources is and give it as much credence as proven acts.

MH17 is just a symptom of that mind set.
 
I see you skillfully miss the point.

The point is not about MH17 it is about your inability to accept any facts contrary to your argument, no matter how widely they are accepted by others or how much proof is presented that your view is wrong. You will come out with all sorts of drivel to support your claim no matter how unlikely or how unreliable the sources is and give it as much credence as proven acts.

MH17 is just a symptom of that mind set.
Well, indeed I have super-high standards to recognise allegations as proven facts and don't wish to lower them. However, after exchange of opinions, views, arguments during thoughtful, intelligent discussion any ARRSE visitor could himself make own judgment. I'm ready to change my mind immediately (and did it previously) being shown good argument, well proven facts, considerations based on common sense and so on.
Though, let's return to the theme of this thread.
Have you anything to back points made by his excellency @MARSHALVAUBAN ?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Going down the pan in 3, 2, 1....

Venezuela faces epic default as China and Russia pull the plug
Venezuela is to default within days in a sovereign bankruptcy of epic scale and complexity, threatening to cripple the country’s oil industry and set off a hyperinflationary collapse.

President Nicolas Maduro said Venezuela had been strangled by a financial blockade and would seek to restructure over $140bn (£107bn) of external debt immediately, a task deemed almost impossible under the constraints to US sanctions.

The country cut its ties to the International Monetary Fund in 2007 and no longer has any legal access to an IMF restructuring package, even if it were willing to accept the Fund’s draconian terms.
Some indications of the scale of the problem.
The thirst for foreign money to prop up the country's dire situation is huge. Repayments on some $3.7bn of debt are due in the next two months, and the nation's reserves, which were relatively well-stocked from the sale of oil over the years (the Venezuelan central bank held $43bn in 2009) are now close to bare, with just less than $10bn left to spend.
Richard Hausmann, a Harvard University professor and himself Venezuelan, explains that the level of inflation is far beyond any traditional measure of hyperinflation. 'Over the last four weeks the average weekly inflation has been 13.2pc. That's an annualised rate of 66,000pc a year'," he says. "This is by far the greatest economic collapse that has happened in the context of peace."
Another socialist government runs out of other peoples money to spend. Epic mismanagement of the economy didn't help either, nor did p*ssing off Uncle Sam.

Wordsmith
 
Another socialist government runs out of other peoples money to spend. Epic mismanagement of the economy didn't help either, nor did p*ssing off Uncle Sam.
Nor did the drop in oil prices and the general thievery. A lot of rich people also got even richer making huge sums of money. Hmm, I wonder where I've seem that before? :rolleyes:

The worn out rhetoric that Corbyn would turn the UK into a Venezuela clone, is well, tired old rhetoric.
In fact the conservatives are stealing Labour policies. Remember Cameron's statement in which he accused Ed Miliband of wanting to live in a Marxist universe.

Tories accused of stealing Labour's energy price cap promise


So if Labour policy is Marxist, and the conservatives use these policies then I say that the conservatives are a bunch of commies who want to turn us into a Venezuela nest of commie lovers.





Subscribe to read I was able to read this story without a sub.

Osborne: Rich richer but savers suffer

https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

https://www.globalresearch.ca/uk-th...oubled-since-the-2008-economic-crisis/5383121
 
Nor did the drop in oil prices and the general thievery. A lot of rich people also got even richer making huge sums of money. Hmm, I wonder where I've seem that before? :rolleyes:

The worn out rhetoric that Corbyn would turn the UK into a Venezuela clone, is well, tired old rhetoric.
In fact the conservatives are stealing Labour policies. Remember Cameron's statement in which he accused Ed Miliband of wanting to live in a Marxist universe.

Tories accused of stealing Labour's energy price cap promise


So if Labour policy is Marxist, and the conservatives use these policies then I say that the conservatives are a bunch of commies who want to turn us into a Venezuela nest of commie lovers.





Subscribe to read I was able to read this story without a sub.

Osborne: Rich richer but savers suffer

https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

https://www.globalresearch.ca/uk-th...oubled-since-the-2008-economic-crisis/5383121
Hahahahahaha
I didn't read your drivel, I just looked at the links you posted....you're a special kind of belter.
Enjoy being on the Biff list.
 
You make it sound as if you're important to me in some way. Heres how I look at it. I call it mind over matter. I don't mind because you don't matter! ;)
Is that one of your own? Nah, you stole that line from a film didn't you? Heartbreak Ridge was it?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Did Venezuela fail because they weren't 'left' enough?

I believe that is why the labour party didn't get in a while back.
Paging @DaManBugs. He'll be pleased to explain Venezuela wasn't true socialism and wouldn't have failed it it was.

So many failed socialist states around the world. Still, on the 1,001st attempt, I suppose one of them will work out how to run true socialism.

Wordsmith
 
Paging @DaManBugs. He'll be pleased to explain Venezuela wasn't true socialism and wouldn't have failed it it was.

So many failed socialist states around the world. Still, on the 1,001st attempt, I suppose one of them will work out how to run true socialism.

Wordsmith
I rate the observation that if socialism was in any way viable the Germans in GDR would have worked it out.
That they couldn't settles that argument pretty conclusively I think.
 
The problem that Marx created for himself was that he defined wealth in terms of capital and ownership. Eliminate ownership and you eliminate classes and wealthy classes exploiting others.
But wealth existed before Marx’s industrial economy, and is about access to and control of the means of production, distribution and exchange, title is just an outward sign of that.
While wealth creates power, power also creates wealth. If there is a ruling class, there is wealth attached to it. Socialist ruling classes usually don’t leave themselves short of the good things in life and when you have access to the state dacha and caviar supply, it really doesn’t matter if you have a piece of paper giving you title. Even if you find a frugal-living socialist despot, it’s a red herring. The problem socialist despots have is that they cleave to a system that views the better off as cows to be milked but when they are gone, do not have any coherent system for generating more moola because the people who might do are inherently evil and must be discouraged. You end up forcing the have-nots (now everybody) to sacrifice more and more for the “Common Good”. Repeatedly dividing the pie is a race to the bottom. People have to be controlled to prevent them accumulating and coerce them to contribute. Eventually you eliminate all but one form of wealth: Orwell spotted it. Power.
 
The problem that Marx created for himself was that he defined wealth in terms of capital and ownership. Eliminate ownership and you eliminate classes and wealthy classes exploiting others.
But wealth existed before Marx’s industrial economy, and is about access to and control of the means of production, distribution and exchange, title is just an outward sign of that.
Absolutely, the big thing that Marx missed was the agrarian revolution where mahousive wealth was created for landowners as agricultural production rocketed. Part of the reason for the industrial revolution was this surplus wealth being available to finance investment in production. You can even look further back and claim that with serfdom being effectively eliminated by the labour shortage due to the Black Death, that was the point when early Capitalist society started.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Socialism has two sorts of supporters.

1. The altruistic, idealistic, economic numskulls who believe that it works and will bring equality and happiness and free unicorns for all.

2. Cynical, ruthless, amoral,ambitious grafters who learn to sing the right tunes in order to climb what will, for them, become the ladder to wealth and positon, kicking anyone else off the ladder as they push past. They see group (1) above as the mugs they are, and use whatever the currently fashionable ideology is to 'prove' they, the grafters are right and everyone else is wrong . They maintain their power by forcing everyone else into a psychological servitude by forcing the proles to pretend to believe whatever dogma is supplying the ladder and to worship a Supreme Leader - on pain of (possibly mortal) punishment. The economic collapse of the country doesn't matter to them because they make sure that they are the very last to suffer. There is always enough to be had to keep the nomenklatura in comfort, never mind if the proles are starving.

The ones at greatest mortal risk, general starvation of those who don't matter apart, are those who represent any sort of personal challenge. It pays to be the nastiest and to out-nasty everyone else.
 

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