Venezuela about to go down the tubes...a lesson for Corbyn and the Labour Party perhaps?

For all those Socialists denying that Socialists went all misted eyed over Venezuela, and want to forget they claimed Venezuela as an economic miracle of Socialism....

Even in that roll-call of hypocritical stupidity, Corbyn's call to end 'austerity' by adopting Venezuelan political practices is eye-rolling cretinism.
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Thornberry's arse is rubbed raw from straddling the fence she is sitting on.

Venezuela needs new election, Britain's opposition Labour says | Reuters

Emily Thornberry says that Corbyn's Labour would not recognise Guaidó but would definitely call for new elections.

An interesting position. If they are calling for a new presidential election then presumably they do not believe that the last one was legitimate. If this is the case then Maduro is not the legitimate president. If so, then the Venezuelan Constitution places Guaidó in charge.

So, are Labour stating that they do not think Venezuela should follow its own Constitution? Do they believe that Maduro should be leader despite not having won a legitimate election? Or perhaps they think that the first election was fair but that Venezuela should nonetheless have another one just for the hell of it?
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Labour being inconsistent. Gosh.
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Maduro stop shipments of humanitarian aid.

Venezuela military uses tanker and shipping container to block humanitarian aid shipment

Now this is truly bonkers. I could fully understand that the Venezuelan authorities might want to search any incoming aid lorries, but to completely block any aid coming in is surely counter-productive?

In a country where people are dying from a lack of basic medication and are struggling to find enough food on a daily basis, foreign aid is surely the only option. I think it paints Maduro in his true colours, willing to let people die so long as his image of the strong leader is maintained. Except, of course, that that image is not true to anyone but himself and his immediate followers.

Anyone want to take out life insurance on the man?
 
Maduro stop shipments of humanitarian aid.

Venezuela military uses tanker and shipping container to block humanitarian aid shipment

Now this is truly bonkers. I could fully understand that the Venezuelan authorities might want to search any incoming aid lorries, but to completely block any aid coming in is surely counter-productive?

In a country where people are dying from a lack of basic medication and are struggling to find enough food on a daily basis, foreign aid is surely the only option. I think it paints Maduro in his true colours, willing to let people die so long as his image of the strong leader is maintained. Except, of course, that that image is not true to anyone but himself and his immediate followers.

Anyone want to take out life insurance on the man?
Fewer people to vote against him if they starve to death, sadly it's a winning strategy if he makes sure his supporters get fed
 
Maduro stop shipments of humanitarian aid.

Venezuela military uses tanker and shipping container to block humanitarian aid shipment

Now this is truly bonkers. I could fully understand that the Venezuelan authorities might want to search any incoming aid lorries, but to completely block any aid coming in is surely counter-productive?

In a country where people are dying from a lack of basic medication and are struggling to find enough food on a daily basis, foreign aid is surely the only option. I think it paints Maduro in his true colours, willing to let people die so long as his image of the strong leader is maintained. Except, of course, that that image is not true to anyone but himself and his immediate followers.

Anyone want to take out life insurance on the man?
My bold.
No, it is simply Socialism.
Change the situation and you change the mind is true but is re invented as deny the situation and it ceases to exist.
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Certainly the sort of extreme authoritarian socialism that the likes of Putin and Maduro preach., where the state is supreme and infallible and will look after you from cradle to grave because it knows best.

In the wider definition of socialism, however, it is inconsistent and contrary. Socialism should be about people looking after each other, with communal help associations like the NHS and unions providing for those in need. That is the 'small S' socialism, though, the sort that most countries are happy to operate within their wider governmental styles.

In the sort of socialism that most people find acceptable, distributing aid is part and parcel of the ethos of a wider society looking after its own. In this case it is the richer USA sending help to the poorer (Maduro et. al. excepting) Venezuela in a time of need. The very essence of socialism, in fact.

That Maduro rejects the aid and is determined for Venezuela to stand or fall by itself without any foreign help suggests that his Socialist government is not, in fact, very socialist at all.
 
Certainly the sort of extreme authoritarian socialism that the likes of Putin and Maduro preach., where the state is supreme and infallible and will look after you from cradle to grave because it knows best.

In the wider definition of socialism, however, it is inconsistent and contrary. Socialism should be about people looking after each other, with communal help associations like the NHS and unions providing for those in need. That is the 'small S' socialism, though, the sort that most countries are happy to operate within their wider governmental styles.

In the sort of socialism that most people find acceptable, distributing aid is part and parcel of the ethos of a wider society looking after its own. In this case it is the richer USA sending help to the poorer (Maduro et. al. excepting) Venezuela in a time of need. The very essence of socialism, in fact.

That Maduro rejects the aid and is determined for Venezuela to stand or fall by itself without any foreign help suggests that his Socialist government is not, in fact, very socialist at all.
And that is why I described myself as socialist until about five years ago.
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Those are "social" policies, not "socialist" policies.
You are splitting hairs, and I don't think correctly.

A social policy could be distinctly non-socialist - a policy of letting people starve in the streets if they can't pay for food or shelter is a social policy but definitely not one associated with socialism.

To use an OED dictionary definition of socialism, it is 'a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole' or a 'Policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.'

If a social policy is socialist, therefore, it advocates community-based resource management. That is what the NHS and unions seek to do, they are microcosms of community which regulate the resources they hold. Any welfare system that distributes aid or other resources from a centrally held reserve is a nod to socialism. In most Western democracies, that sort of 'socialist-light' welfare policy is included in national governments.
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Not at all. Social policies existed before Socialism did. It is a common misdirection to try and claim that any social policy is somehow inherent and unique to Socialism.
You are mistaking socialism with Socialism. The two are not necessarily the same thing, but are often confused. You'll note that my remarks have been about socialism and not Socialism.

Socialism (small S) is simply a policy where the community looks after its members by distributing resources as required. It is found in primitive tribes who have never heard of Marx or Engels, and is also seen in the animal kingdom where it is highly unlikely that anyone has read political theory.

A social policy is simply a policy related to the society being governed. It does not have to be socialist in nature. Imprisoning or killing vagrants is a social policy, but I doubt that anyone would suggest that it is socialist in nature.

Socialism (large S) is a theoretical political system whereby the state controls all the resources of the nation and distributes it according to individual need.
 

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