Yes, saw that last night. Thomas Ruyent was waiting for advice yesterday afternoon on whether to cut off his port foil.
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Vendee. PRADA & Jules Verne Racing
- Thread starter Spanks
- Start date
You can do hero-zero courses to get your RYC Qualifications, takes about 3 weeks, a few outfits in the Med offer it and there's a really good one in SW England that focuses on older gaff-rigged type vessels as opposed to modern Marconis
Spanks
LE
A broken starboard foil in 2016 didn't affect Alex too much although it could be argued he would have won the race had it stayed intact.
Is carbon fibre on it's own enough or does there need to be a sacrifice in weight and add steel to certain weak areas? The after race engineering analysis of why these failures happened will be an interesting read.
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Statistics
Old-Salt
This is up there with the Spine Race for making me procrastinate over doing proper work....Bravo!
Carbon fibre is immensely strong for it's weight but that strength is not all encompassing. It can make sense on a competitive racing car or bicycle but when it fails it fails without warning. I expect it has a low modulus of elasticity. Rather than entering a plastic transition before failure it will tend to shatter, so it's no use for agricultural vehicles. I think the forces that caused the failure were shear stresses and torsion ie across the beam of the yacht and with some parallax flexing going on. That again is simply speculation on my part. A fibreglass vessel can likely deal with that, (if designed to do so), at the cost of weight. Then again a SOLAS lifeboat is designed to pootle about and turn the occupants green, rather than for high speed.
A steel vessel will tend to have less flex. Viking longboats were designed to flex with the sea, rather than to fight the waves by being too rigid. A Viking longboat isn't suitable for foils because of it's flexibility. Foils rely on a certain amount of rigidity in the hull, hence the ride is awful at high speed.
The foils on Hugo Boss are different to other vessels and I think they may have benefited from understanding the failure mode of the foil on Alex's 2016 vessel. I think some vibrations can be damped by varying the profile.
A problem with using different materials is failures where they are joined together, so this needs to be taken in to account. This is off the top of my head but I'm not a boat builder so happy to be corrected or for others to elaborate on the technical issues.
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Current wind speed at Alex's location supposedly 8kts. Max speed in last hour 12.9 kts. Tracker says 4.4 kts but I'm not sure I believe that. More importantly he seems to be closing in on double digit wind speeds.
Sea Wolves' latest video below. I still have to watch yesterday's video.
Sea Wolves' latest video below. I still have to watch yesterday's video.
Two things come to mind straight away; the first is that the ideal carbon structure is a homogeneous monocoque. A single structure, with no joints in the structure or strengthening elements bonded on.
Smaller carbon structures are laid up with carbon cloth that is then impregnated with resin under vacuum and autoclaved at a precise temperature to ensure the resin goes off at the ideal rate. You end up with a single homogeneous monocoque structure that can be immensely complex; check out McLaren’s chassis. Note that most carbon masts are autoclaved.
Large carbon structures can’t be made that way. They’re simply too big to lay up in one go and stick in an oven. So they tend to use pre-impregnated carbon cloth that contains resin that is activated after layup. Also, with boats, you have to bond in things like bulkheads, the mast foot, the foil carriers (not sure that’s the right term!) etc etc after the hull has been moulded. These joints are carefully engineered, but they are still joints.
The end result is an immensely strong strong structure; there is a noticeable difference between sailing on a carbon hill yacht and a GRP one. Carbon yachts don’t shake when they come off a big wave; it’s a much more aggressive and none shattering crash.
Add in the fact that these yachts are one-offs that push the boundaries of design knowledge and it’s hardly surprising that there are failures due to design, manufacturing or both. Compare with say F1 cars where they prototype the tub and crash test it.
Alex going slow again... others with seemingly lighter winds going faster. I hope it's not broken again.. Of course it could be weak winds that are not showing on the visual but the boat environment stats say 9kt winds, boat max over past hour = 8.5 kts.. He could be having some kip of course.
Samantha Davies doing very well in her older but more robust boat. Excellent.
Charlie Dalin picking up speed. His gamble may be about to pay off with an appreciable lead over the others.
Thomas Ruyant will be in that calmer area for a while and may lose his position
Overlay and data sometimes seem at odds with each other. I've no idea what the sampling periods are but the map plots are every three hours.
Samantha Davies doing very well in her older but more robust boat. Excellent.
Charlie Dalin picking up speed. His gamble may be about to pay off with an appreciable lead over the others.
Thomas Ruyant will be in that calmer area for a while and may lose his position
Overlay and data sometimes seem at odds with each other. I've no idea what the sampling periods are but the map plots are every three hours.
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I don’t think they slow down to kip; they spend the whole race power napping and being woken by alarms when anything needs trimming. 8.5kts in 9kts of wind is pretty impressive!
No, no proper 8 hour sleep for up to three months.
I was briefly thinking back to Alex returning to auto pilot after all the repair work and maybe being extra cautious for the first day or so.Yes the speeds for the light winds can be impressive with these boats. We don't have verification that the max speed over an hour matched a specific wind speed though. Ideally all the information would be synchronised and more frequent but it is what it is. If I was subscribed to satellite AIS data I would check that in case it was an option but they may be using another trackers.
I would imagine that there is a real time satellite data link from the yachts’ instruments to their teams. May not go to race control. The yachts will probably also be carrying a sealed satellite tracker provided by the race organisers, but they only update at intervals due to battery life. Plus there’s the AIS trace. Blind guess; the updates come off a sealed tracker.No, no proper 8 hour sleep for up to three months.
Yes the speeds for the light winds can be impressive with these boats. We don't have verification that the max speed over an hour matched a specific wind speed though. Ideally all the information would be synchronised and more frequent but it is what it is. If I was subscribed to satellite AIS data I would check that in case it was an option but they may be using another trackers.
feu_de_joie
LE
I doubt that any repair that you can make at sea will be as strong as the original. As I understood, it was a (the?)main longitudinal stringer that had broken, which is must be pretty much as serious as it gets, what with implications for forestay tension and the rig. I hope it’s just local conditions but it wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t
Charlie Dalin's perseverance appears to have paid off. His yacht is now in the good winds and his speed has increased to around 20kts. He has all the advantage now of distance and speed. For this section anyway.
Alex is also in that wind stream now with the group trailing the three leaders. The reason he slowed down last night was to further reinforce the boat.
Update from Ross Daniel, Technical Director at Alex Thomson Racing:
“Yesterday evening, Alex decided to take advantage of the light conditions to further reinforce the repairs that he has done onboard HUGO BOSS in order to increase the safety factors before he enters the Southern Ocean.
“To do this, he had to slow the boat down slightly so that he could work in relatively stable conditions. With the new weather front crossing the fleet today, which will carry them south, Alex knew that last night would be his last opportunity to complete this reinforcement.
“This morning we’ve been able to take a good look at the work that Alex did overnight. It looks good and we are very happy with what he has been able to do.
“Alex is now back into racing mode and is preparing for the Southern Ocean”.
The other good news is that his speed has picked up to around 21kts. His max speed in the last hour was 27kts
He has a lot of catching up to do. The boat reports wind speed 15kts. Temperature cooler but mild. Notice how far South Charlie is.
Zooming out for the bigger picture. All competitors are being forced quite far South of the prescribed route in order to avoid the lengthened calm zone. If the favourable winds descend further South, in to the exclusion zone, they will be slowed down again. If this happens to Charlie first, the followers may catch up a bit. If he makes it through and that blue area descends behind him his lead will increase.
Alex is also in that wind stream now with the group trailing the three leaders. The reason he slowed down last night was to further reinforce the boat.
Update from Ross Daniel, Technical Director at Alex Thomson Racing:
“Yesterday evening, Alex decided to take advantage of the light conditions to further reinforce the repairs that he has done onboard HUGO BOSS in order to increase the safety factors before he enters the Southern Ocean.
“To do this, he had to slow the boat down slightly so that he could work in relatively stable conditions. With the new weather front crossing the fleet today, which will carry them south, Alex knew that last night would be his last opportunity to complete this reinforcement.
“This morning we’ve been able to take a good look at the work that Alex did overnight. It looks good and we are very happy with what he has been able to do.
“Alex is now back into racing mode and is preparing for the Southern Ocean”.
The other good news is that his speed has picked up to around 21kts. His max speed in the last hour was 27kts
He has a lot of catching up to do. The boat reports wind speed 15kts. Temperature cooler but mild. Notice how far South Charlie is.Zooming out for the bigger picture. All competitors are being forced quite far South of the prescribed route in order to avoid the lengthened calm zone. If the favourable winds descend further South, in to the exclusion zone, they will be slowed down again. If this happens to Charlie first, the followers may catch up a bit. If he makes it through and that blue area descends behind him his lead will increase.
Spanks
LE
I was just reading/watching the updates myself. When I saw HB back down to 4.1 overnight I began to wonder if there was another problem but it does make sense to do any strengthening prior to hitting the Southern Ocean and with 2/3rds of the race to go there's a good chance to catch up.Charlie Dalin's perseverance appears to have paid off. His yacht is now in the good winds and his speed has increased to around 20kts. He has all the advantage now of distance and speed. For this section anyway.
Alex is also in that wind stream now with the group trailing the three leaders. The reason he slowed down last night was to further reinforce the boat.
Update from Ross Daniel, Technical Director at Alex Thomson Racing:
“Yesterday evening, Alex decided to take advantage of the light conditions to further reinforce the repairs that he has done onboard HUGO BOSS in order to increase the safety factors before he enters the Southern Ocean.
“To do this, he had to slow the boat down slightly so that he could work in relatively stable conditions. With the new weather front crossing the fleet today, which will carry them south, Alex knew that last night would be his last opportunity to complete this reinforcement.
“This morning we’ve been able to take a good look at the work that Alex did overnight. It looks good and we are very happy with what he has been able to do.
“Alex is now back into racing mode and is preparing for the Southern Ocean”.
The other good news is that his speed has picked up to around 21kts. His max speed in the last hour was 27kts
Zooming out for the bigger picture. All competitors are being forced quite far South of the prescribed route in order to avoid the lengthened calm zone. If the favourable winds descend further South, in to the exclusion zone, they will be slowed down again. If this happens to Charlie first, the followers may catch up a bit. If he makes it through and that blue area descends behind him his lead will increase.
Looks like that calm area to the South is moving upwards..
HB reporting wind 17 kts, Max speed in last hour 23.7 kts.
Just caught up with Sea Wolves' video from Thursday a few posts up. As he says the Southern Ocean will be a real test of reliability. Will some of the boats that share design heritage with HB take it a bit easier in case they break?
He says that following the great response he has had about the interview with the chap from Sea Explorer team, he has another three interviews planned.
Also, Florian mentioned the Jules Verne race with the very large and very fast trimarans. He will be talking about those in coming weeks. Here is a link to the official site Trophée Jules Verne - Trophée Jules Verne
@Spank-it do you want to cover it on this thread or start a separate one?
Back to Sea Wolves. His latest episode addresses the subject of the Southern Ocean and it's dangers. Essential viewing!
He says that following the great response he has had about the interview with the chap from Sea Explorer team, he has another three interviews planned.
Also, Florian mentioned the Jules Verne race with the very large and very fast trimarans. He will be talking about those in coming weeks. Here is a link to the official site Trophée Jules Verne - Trophée Jules Verne
@Spank-it do you want to cover it on this thread or start a separate one?
Back to Sea Wolves. His latest episode addresses the subject of the Southern Ocean and it's dangers. Essential viewing!
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Spanks
LE
@Electromagnetic
I could keep the races on this thread, I can change the title to Vendee, Verne, Americas Cup, Ocean Racing or something like that. We should start each post with what race we are papping about though.
Open to different opinions so anybody else have an idea?
I could keep the races on this thread, I can change the title to Vendee, Verne, Americas Cup, Ocean Racing or something like that. We should start each post with what race we are papping about though.
Open to different opinions so anybody else have an idea?
That seems a sensible idea.
Vendee Globe 2020
Alex Thomson slowed down again. This time it was a rudder problem! Fortunately he has two.
At approximately 19:00 UTC this evening (Friday 27th November) – 19 days into the Vendée Globe round-the-world yacht race – Alex Thomson notified his technical team on shore of damage to the starboard rudder of his HUGO BOSS boat.
The team immediately advised Thomson to disconnect the rudder to regain steerage. He now has control of the yacht with one rudder, and is safe and in no danger onboard.
The team is working to assess the extent of the damage. A further update will be released on Saturday 28th November.
Screen grab from 360 tour appears to illustrate one rudder deployed and one raised.
Perhaps it's my imagination but that low under the main group looks like it may have intensified. Dalin is tacking through it's outer edge. HB sensors, back with the main group, report less than 3 metres, 18 kts.
Alex's Max speed last hour 18.9 kts.
Looking back at where they came from, there is just enough wind North of the main group to carry the stragglers through. For now. The high pressure blue area to the North has expanded. The blue area to the South seems to be moving up to meet it.
Sam doing really well in 9th position and seems to be loving it. see vid below.
Pip in 24th and Miranda in 27th.
The Hub - Alex Thomson Racing & Nokia Bell Labs
Ranking - Vendée Globe - En
Lots of video clips here from aboard the yachts. Can't post them all:
https://www.youtube.com/user/VendeeGlobeTV/videos
Samantha in French and some English
Thomas Ruyant out on the damaged foil using a solo harness!!! He successfully trimmed off the damaged tip to reduce the chances of catastrophic failure.
Alex Thomson slowed down again. This time it was a rudder problem! Fortunately he has two.
At approximately 19:00 UTC this evening (Friday 27th November) – 19 days into the Vendée Globe round-the-world yacht race – Alex Thomson notified his technical team on shore of damage to the starboard rudder of his HUGO BOSS boat.
The team immediately advised Thomson to disconnect the rudder to regain steerage. He now has control of the yacht with one rudder, and is safe and in no danger onboard.
The team is working to assess the extent of the damage. A further update will be released on Saturday 28th November.
Screen grab from 360 tour appears to illustrate one rudder deployed and one raised.
Perhaps it's my imagination but that low under the main group looks like it may have intensified. Dalin is tacking through it's outer edge. HB sensors, back with the main group, report less than 3 metres, 18 kts.
Alex's Max speed last hour 18.9 kts.
Looking back at where they came from, there is just enough wind North of the main group to carry the stragglers through. For now. The high pressure blue area to the North has expanded. The blue area to the South seems to be moving up to meet it.
Sam doing really well in 9th position and seems to be loving it. see vid below.
Pip in 24th and Miranda in 27th.
The Hub - Alex Thomson Racing & Nokia Bell Labs
Ranking - Vendée Globe - En
Lots of video clips here from aboard the yachts. Can't post them all:
https://www.youtube.com/user/VendeeGlobeTV/videos
Samantha in French and some English
Thomas Ruyant out on the damaged foil using a solo harness!!! He successfully trimmed off the damaged tip to reduce the chances of catastrophic failure.
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Jules Verne Trophy race
Travel around the world leaving the capes of Good Hope, Leeuwin and Horn to port.
• Re-cross the line defined above in the opposite direction.
From a blog I found:
Technically, the two tris are not racing each other. Each is racing the clock. The Jules Verne Trophy is awarded to the challenger who breaks the previous Jules Verne record of the round the world voyage under sail. The current record of 40 days 23 hours 30 minutes 30 seconds was set by Francis Joyon sailing IDEC Sport in 2017.
The winner holds the trophy until such time as his/her record has been bettered. The boats must solely be propelled by natural forces of the wind and of the crew, but the trophy is open to any type of boat with no restrictions. Crew size is not restricted either.
Foiling Maxi-Trimarans Race Head to Head for Jules Verne Trophy
Jules Verne Trophy: Head-to-head foiling battle begins for round the world record
Wiki: Jules Verne Trophy - Wikipedia
Official race home page: Trophée Jules Verne - Trophée Jules Verne
History - Trophée Jules Verne
Map: Map - Trophée Jules Verne
Lets try some of the options. That's better!
This race may be trickier to follow, though the trimarans are faster than the monohulls on the Vendee Globe.
Saying that, here are trackers, thanks to Yachting World for info.
Sodebo Ultim 3: à l'assaut du Trophée Jules Verne - Sodebo - Trophée Jules Verne
Gitana : écurie de course au large fondée par le Baron Benjamin de Rothschild
December 2020 - Yachting World
Although the race's official language is French, we need not be deterred as google translate plug ins are available for Chrome based browsers for example. Great but how does that help with video and French dialogue? If you follow te video links to YouTube, enable subtitles, then click the gear symbol to change settings. Notice the French (auto generated) subtitles. Click on this to go to the next menu. Now select auto generate. This will bring up a list of languages. scroll down to English and select it. Job done.
You will see the French unless you deselected it but you will also (eventually) see the English translation.
A bit of action:
High speed cake at sea:
Route
• Cross the starting line defined by a line between Créac’h lighthouse on Ushant Island and Lizard Lighthouse.Travel around the world leaving the capes of Good Hope, Leeuwin and Horn to port.
• Re-cross the line defined above in the opposite direction.
From a blog I found:
Technically, the two tris are not racing each other. Each is racing the clock. The Jules Verne Trophy is awarded to the challenger who breaks the previous Jules Verne record of the round the world voyage under sail. The current record of 40 days 23 hours 30 minutes 30 seconds was set by Francis Joyon sailing IDEC Sport in 2017.
The winner holds the trophy until such time as his/her record has been bettered. The boats must solely be propelled by natural forces of the wind and of the crew, but the trophy is open to any type of boat with no restrictions. Crew size is not restricted either.
Foiling Maxi-Trimarans Race Head to Head for Jules Verne Trophy
Jules Verne Trophy: Head-to-head foiling battle begins for round the world record
Wiki: Jules Verne Trophy - Wikipedia
Official race home page: Trophée Jules Verne - Trophée Jules Verne
History - Trophée Jules Verne
Map: Map - Trophée Jules Verne
Lets try some of the options. That's better!
This race may be trickier to follow, though the trimarans are faster than the monohulls on the Vendee Globe.
Saying that, here are trackers, thanks to Yachting World for info.
Sodebo Ultim 3: à l'assaut du Trophée Jules Verne - Sodebo - Trophée Jules Verne
Gitana : écurie de course au large fondée par le Baron Benjamin de Rothschild
December 2020 - Yachting World
Although the race's official language is French, we need not be deterred as google translate plug ins are available for Chrome based browsers for example. Great but how does that help with video and French dialogue? If you follow te video links to YouTube, enable subtitles, then click the gear symbol to change settings. Notice the French (auto generated) subtitles. Click on this to go to the next menu. Now select auto generate. This will bring up a list of languages. scroll down to English and select it. Job done.
You will see the French unless you deselected it but you will also (eventually) see the English translation.
A bit of action:
High speed cake at sea:
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