Vehicle Maintenance

#1
In this day and age of increased H+S, if a new vehicle enters service should those maintaining it be properly trained on the relevant course or should all Class 1s be capable of maintaining a vehicle they are not familiar with?

I can remember Class 1s maintaining CR2s (with no knowledge of the systems) when it first arrived in Germany but that was 10 years ago.
 
#2
phil37 said:
In this day and age of increased H+S, if a new vehicle enters service should those maintaining it be properly trained on the relevant course or should all Class 1s be capable of maintaining a vehicle they are not familiar with?

I can remember Class 1s maintaining CR2s (with no knowledge of the systems) when it first arrived in Germany but that was 10 years ago.
VM's are good but an equipment course for any new vehicle type should be completed surely?
 
#3
Anyone who is to be expected t repair kit should have attended an equipment course. However, when i think back there are a few bits of kit i was never taught, but i got a spec qual after working on them for a few months.
Any Class 1 tradesman should be competent enough to be able to pick up the tech pubs and fault find and rectify on any equipment in a reasonable time. Tech spankers seem to be happy to pick up the tech pubs if they are not sure, why is it that VMs are not?
 
#4
a lot has changed on vehicles from the defender, bedfords, dafs.
now you give a new vehicle of this day and age that has been squaddie proofed and dummified.

When a mechanic goes through his VM course only getting taught what he needs to know to pass the test. then the test is 60% pass mark.

I would say there is a big technical difference from a civilian mechanic to a part time VM.
You try asking a military VM how air bags work?
or how active cruise control works>
or how to diagnos a fibre optics audio system fault?
90% of class 1s will give you........em em em em

I would say that a lot of mil vm's are only trained part changers and need to refreshed into how new kit actually works and how to fix it effectively with out technical repairs (bodge jobs).
if not the results could be costly and catastrophic.
 
#5
Vehicle Maint (providing it isnt at TSSU) is the drivers responsibility.

Vehicle Mechanic is merely there to swop parts more of a fitter really then a mechanic.

Unless its a hover tank then the fundamental of steering, final drives, powerpack etc are surely the same? and would only require a conversion course.

I would imagine if this is not the case then many VMs would rather not attend an intensive course on a new bit of kit unless they like sandy or stoney places for long periods of time.
 
#7
Inspection carried out monthly on a CFT

Driver Mechs normally pretty good at diagnosis, same as Gunner mech, ConSigs and even Crew Mechs.

REME vermin merely confirm and book it in for to a civ workshop to work on
 
#8
BIPOLAR77 take your ignorant one sided views elsewhere they do not answer the question raised but sadly show that even those with less brain cells can be adopted by the Armed Services and used as fodder now jog on.

VM's are indeed required to attend the relevant eqpt course prior to working on new eqpt. If you know what your talking about then DEME(A)'s guidance in DES 2 is where you need to look. Competence is required and no one should be inspecting/repairing eqpt that they have had no formal training on.

However that said common sense can also prevail, for instance Trojan and Titan are CR2 based eqpt so it would be fine for a formally CR2 trained VM to say repair a powerpack but not go so far as to get involved with the STR epqt.
 
#9
BIPOLAR77 said:
Inspection carried out monthly on a CFT

Driver Mechs normally pretty good at diagnosis, same as Gunner mech, ConSigs and even Crew Mechs.

REME vermin merely confirm and book it in for to a civ workshop to work on
Really???
 
#10
craigspeedy said:
a lot has changed on vehicles from the defender, bedfords, dafs.
now you give a new vehicle of this day and age that has been squaddie proofed and dummified.

When a mechanic goes through his VM course only getting taught what he needs to know to pass the test. then the test is 60% pass mark.

I would say there is a big technical difference from a civilian mechanic to a part time VM.
You try asking a military VM how air bags work?
or how active cruise control works>
or how to diagnos a fibre optics audio system fault?
90% of class 1s will give you........em em em em

I would say that a lot of mil vm's are only trained part changers and need to refreshed into how new kit actually works and how to fix it effectively with out technical repairs (bodge jobs).
if not the results could be costly and catastrophic.


My bold, 90% would probably give you that response but then again, they are trained in what they need to know, how many Military vehicles have those systems you mention on them anyway?... not many.

And to put the shoe on the other foot, how many civi VM's would be able to complete field repairs to get a vehicle moving while getting mortared, shot at etc. I would suspect the answer from your civi VM's would be, feck that lark.
 
#11
craigspeedy said:
a lot has changed on vehicles from the defender, bedfords, dafs.
now you give a new vehicle of this day and age that has been squaddie proofed and dummified.

When a mechanic goes through his VM course only getting taught what he needs to know to pass the test. then the test is 60% pass mark.

I would say there is a big technical difference from a civilian mechanic to a part time VM.
You try asking a military VM how air bags work?
or how active cruise control works>
or how to diagnos a fibre optics audio system fault?
90% of class 1s will give you........em em em em

I would say that a lot of mil vm's are only trained part changers and need to refreshed into how new kit actually works and how to fix it effectively with out technical repairs (bodge jobs).
if not the results could be costly and catastrophic.
Your miles away mate your head is full of the sh=te that most ex/non VM's like to fill it with. The new vehicles we have/are getting require the CL1 VM to use and interrogate laptop based diagnostic systems. They are taught CANBUS systems, ECU code retrieval/reset as well as testing and diagnostic interrogation of electronic and automotive systems.

As for air bags and fibre optic audio systems...WTF possessed you to write that. Shoe on the other foot, how many civilian mechanics can explain a fluid flywheel, automatic track tensioning or epicyclic gearing.
 
#12
I will tell you what the problem really is first hand having in the last two years swapped from looking after CR2 then WARRIOR then back to CR2 I now get dragged away to look after PANTHER from time to time. Im now getting sent on more equipment courses for kit that might not be in service by the time i get to the stan. overload is what i call it.This coupled with a med man that had six panther lap tops to work with but only one cable and data plug to go round the whole battlegroup and a fan belt that takes 6 hours to fit. Give us an effing chance to learn how to fix this kit i say and make it maintainer friendly before issuing the frigging stuff. RANT OVER
 
#13
sleeper said:
I will tell you what the problem really is first hand having in the last two years swapped from looking after CR2 then WARRIOR then back to CR2 I now get dragged away to look after PANTHER from time to time. Im now getting sent on more equipment courses for kit that might not be in service by the time i get to the stan. overload is what i call it.This coupled with a med man that had six panther lap tops to work with but only one cable and data plug to go round the whole battlegroup and a fan belt that takes 6 hours to fit. Give us an effing chance to learn how to fix this kit i say and make it maintainer friendly before issuing the frigging stuff. RANT OVER
The perils of UOR procurement!

Keep ranting, Sleeper, keep ranting!

Litotes
 
#14
Oh i could go on all day just had another lap top dumped on us afew weeks ago by the IPT team for the new GUE but thats another story. :?
 
#15
6 hrs for a fan belt, you were lucky we had to change a fuel pump on a ferret and still had to stag on all night you tell the youth of today that and they wont belive you!!!

nothing changes we all had it tough you should have herd the the generation befor me they had it hard, but they were in a war, but so are you. nothing changes

Al x x x
 
#16
a lot has changed on vehicles from the defender, bedfords, dafs.
now you give a new vehicle of this day and age that has been squaddie proofed and dummified.

When a mechanic goes through his VM course only getting taught what he needs to know to pass the test. then the test is 60% pass mark.

I would say there is a big technical difference from a civilian mechanic to a part time VM.
You try asking a military VM how air bags work?
or how active cruise control works>
or how to diagnos a fibre optics audio system fault?
90% of class 1s will give you........em em em em

I would say that a lot of mil vm's are only trained part changers and need to refreshed into how new kit actually works and how to fix it effectively with out technical repairs (bodge jobs).
if not the results could be costly and catastrophic.
I think the point craigspeedy was making is the lack of trade competence of today's mechanics in the REME. ex REME myself i now have my own garage and i employed 3 x class 1 VM's (all b mechs). 2 of them 12 year men and one 8 year. 2 of them were so bad they could not diagnose even basic drive-ability faults. They could not take apart modern trim pieces or interior panels. None of them have ever seen a diagnostic computer. One could not even read a wiring diagrams correctly. OK they could parts change (never in quick time) and they were on time everyday, very respectful but as a business owner. Baby sitting 12 year mechanics is costly.
So i was left wondering about the quality of VM's in the military today. Not like the old.
There is a lot of trade knowledge missing from these gentlemen to the equivalent of any other 12 year VM. Sorry to say but i only have one of these three working for me.
 
#17
telesales said:
craigspeedy said:
a lot has changed on vehicles from the defender, bedfords, dafs.
now you give a new vehicle of this day and age that has been squaddie proofed and dummified.

When a mechanic goes through his VM course only getting taught what he needs to know to pass the test. then the test is 60% pass mark.

I would say there is a big technical difference from a civilian mechanic to a part time VM.
You try asking a military VM how air bags work?
or how active cruise control works>
or how to diagnos a fibre optics audio system fault?
90% of class 1s will give you........em em em em

I would say that a lot of mil vm's are only trained part changers and need to refreshed into how new kit actually works and how to fix it effectively with out technical repairs (bodge jobs).
if not the results could be costly and catastrophic.
I think the point craigspeedy was making is the lack of trade competence of today's mechanics in the REME. ex REME myself i now have my own garage and i employed 3 x class 1 VM's (all b mechs). 2 of them 12 year men and one 8 year. 2 of them were so bad they could not diagnose even basic drive-ability faults. They could not take apart modern trim pieces or interior panels. None of them have ever seen a diagnostic computer. One could not even read a wiring diagrams correctly. OK they could parts change (never in quick time) and they were on time everyday, very respectful but as a business owner. Baby sitting 12 year mechanics is costly.
So i was left wondering about the quality of VM's in the military today. Not like the old.
There is a lot of trade knowledge missing from these gentlemen to the equivalent of any other 12 year VM. Sorry to say but i only have one of these three working for me.
That as maybe... but to come up with a load of sh1te that VMs wont know because they don't need to know is hardly the way to point this fact out.

A VM1 wont know about airbags or how they work because (IIRC) not a single military vehicle is fitted with them. Or "active cruise control" or whatever fibre jobby he describes.

In short the post is sh1te.

In your own list you add bits I wouldn't expect a VM1 (B) to be able to do. Diagnose basic drive-ability faults. Actually this is a very fair point.

Could not take apart modern trim pieces or interior panels. So? How many military vehicles have you seen fitted with trim? Having said that even I can do that, and I'm not a VM.

None of them have ever seen a diagnostic computer. Newsflash, B vehicles in the forces don't have diagnostic computers, althoug I would imagine in the future we will start getting htem. Some equipment has in built diagnostics.

One could not even read a wiring diagrams correctly. Again a very fair point.

OK they could parts change (never in quick time). And again.

Could craigspeedy answer baldricksdad's point? or perhaps answer how many civvie mechanics could carry out a Panzer pack change? Or as others have alluded to carry out this sort of task in a muddy field, after 36 hours of stags and possibly in contact?

If training is falling short, this should be flagged up the CoC and (hopefully) rectified. And/or training should be beefed up at unit level.

I'd imagine if the CREME was given the above list of exotic training difficiencies they'd laugh all the way down the road.

The REME isn't training VMs to be employable in civvie street, although if we can help them down that road it would be nice, they are training for the equipment that we use.

Please don't allow "creaping excellence" or "job creap" to jaundice views.
 
#18
"The REME isn't training VMs to be employable in civvie street, although if we can help them down that road it would be nice, they are training for the equipment that we use."

Fair point Chocolate Frog & unfortunately true. Surely then the corps should implement a resettlement package to cover any of the systems that our daily employment or trade training doesn't cover. That way tradesmen leaving the army would "fit in" with their civilian counterparts. I've been a VM(U/A) for 20 years now & I only just experienced CANBUS & common rail diesel last year on the SV course. God only knows what other technological advances the automotive industry have made since I last worked in a garage.

It's not just advances in technology that we have to keep an eye on either, for example, most civilian mechanics are expected to do their own welding work as well, I can't remember the last time I was able to track down welding equipment to carry out a repair.

I know that the clever answer is that after 22 years in, I should be looking at a management position & not a shop floor job but not everyone does the full 22.
 
#19
bawbag said:
Surely then the corps should implement a resettlement package to cover any of the systems that our daily employment or trade training doesn't cover. That way tradesmen leaving the army would "fit in" with their civilian counterparts. .
My bold.

Are all VMs going to get out of the Army to VM then? Seems a bit narrow minded to me. Why should the Army instigate something that it doesn't benefit from?
 
#20
What I meant was that if the army can run resettlement courses in bricklaying, plumbing etc, why can't they also run courses for technical personnel to pick up any skills that we don't cover as part of our day to day workload. "Trade top up" courses if you like. This would obviously apply for all trade groups, not just VM's, I just used that trade group as an example using my own experience.

I know that not everyone leaves the army to continue their chosen trade discipline but it could at least be a resettlement option for those that do wish to carry on spannering.
 

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