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VC's

#1
Always thought that the RAMC had the most VC's in the Army, but heard the other day a (quite senior) medic backing down when corrected on this fact by an infanteer.

Have the RAMC got the most VC's or is it just one of those urban myths?  If not anyone know who has?
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#2
Sad a Medic could back down, just lie!

Its a myth we put about to wind up Infantrymen!

Royal Engineers- about 56
Royal Artillery-about 46
RAMC-31 with 2 doubles

The above figures are not backed up by any knowledge and hopefully someone can get the correct figures before I can check!

Capt NG Chavasse attached 10 Liverpool Scottish VC and Bar and MC

Lt Col A Martin-Leake- VC and Bar

Maj Upham NZ Army- VC and Bar

This will be updated.
 
#3
The situation with the RAMC is a little confusing.  15 individuals won their VC whilst cap-badged RAMC.  With one winning a bar; total 16.  To this have to be added 3 winners who received theirs whilst serving in the Army Medical Department and the Army Hospital Corps (two of the organisations that were absorbed into the RAMC when it was formed in 1898).  

So where do the other's come from?  Well prior to 1898 most doctors were directly recruited by their regiment and were cap-badged to that regiment e.g. the MO of the Irish Guards was an Irish Guards officer.  To get to the figure of 31 winners (total of 33 between them), this is done by including all those who today would be in the RAMC with the current army organisation.  Bearing in mind that all the amalgamated regiments claim all the VC's from their precursor regiments I think it is fair enough for the RAMC to do the same.  However, many infantry units try to claim their MO's VC as belonging to them because they wore their cap-badge at the time of the award.  

Perhaps the most confusing is Arthur Martin- Leake.  He won his first when technically a policeman, i.e. he was the medical officer to one of the para-military police forces employed during the Boer War, even though this was after the formation of the RAMC.  He did, however, win his bar whilst a member of the RAMC.

Just as a matter of interest, the RAMC also have one of the two individuals who won both the VC and Iron Cross First Class.
 
L

LE_OC

Guest
#4
Royal Green Jackets with 55 plus a further 4 TA Green Jackets from the London Regiment from WW1. The RGJ regii museum at Winchester have 31 of them on public display, which, I believe, is the largest collection in the world.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#5
Just to point out the Inf VC's totals come from years of amalgamations of up 10 other Regts so they will always have a large number of VC's.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#6
RE - 35
RA, RRA, RHA - 45
The RE number is 49 and an excellent link is: http://www.chapter-one.com/vc/search.asp Just type Royal Engineers and an extensive list will appear!

The research goes on!

One 'league table' from the IWM gives the following result:

Royal Regiment of Artillery - 61
Corps of Royal Engineers - 47*
Royal Army Medical Corps - 34 (including 2 `Bars')
Rifle Brigade - 28
South Wales Borderers - 24
King's Royal Rifle Corps - 22
Royal Fusiliers - 20

*The RE's claim 55 but these are the same as the pre RAMC  Medical Officer's holders


Below is Capt Noel Chavasse VC and Bar, MC, RMO attached Liverpool Scottish (10th Bn Kings Regt.) and his last resting place at BRANDHOEK NEW MILITARY CEMETERY Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium



 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
I was told that due to amalgamations the current winner is PWRR but to be hoinest I can't be bothered finding out the truth.....sad and unpatriotic but true.  :-[
 
#8
"Just as a matter of interest, the RAMC also have one of the two individuals who won both the VC and Iron Cross First Class."


Sounds unusual - do tell more, who are these pair?
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#9
Try this good VC linkhttp://www.chapter-one.com/vc/default.asp

The Iron Cross 2nd class winner, whilst attached to the 22nd Prussian Div during the Franco-Prussion War in 1870-1 was Surgeon General (Retired rank) W.G.N. Manley VC CB MRCS. He was awarded the VC whilst attached to the RA (So they also claim it as one of their VCs!) in New Zealand in 1864. Died 1901 and buried in Cheltenham.

If there is a second Iron Cross winner from the RAMC, I cannot find him in my library.
 
#10
There are 23 original Victoria Crosses on display at the AMS Museum in Keogh Barracks.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#12
Any SB who won the VC, would be awarded it as serving with his Regiment, as he isn't cap-badged RAMC.

The pre 1898 VC's won by MO's are credited to their parent Regiments, and they rightly claim them as their own.
 
#14
Has anyone seen this RAMC History CD that is on sale on ebay if so is it any good ?
It is pretty good if you need a source reference.

FF mail me and I will give you some info on it.
 
#15
Don't get the collection of VC's mixed up with a collection of VD's, of which I believe TURP has the honour of the best collection.... :twisted:
 

X-Inf

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#17
wee_face said:
HLDRS 42, Ghurkas 44? If we are counting regiments, then the RA need theirs broken up into the regiment that they came from, not from the corps as a whole....
Very true. if we are looking at Corps, then the Infantry should be looked at as a whole linking all Regiments, which would put them way out front.

However it should be borne in mind that in most instances these have been individual awards given to exceptionally brave people who would likely have won them, or something in the higher ranges of valour awards, regardless of how they were 'badged'.
 
#18
Muckster said:
Don't get the collection of VC's mixed up with a collection of VD's, of which I believe TURP has the honour of the best collection.... :twisted:
Id love to take the credit for the 'awards' but I got them from other Corps, notably the QARANC and Int Corps. God bless em.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#20
Only joking- the CD is an excellent reference tool and the VC citations diary is what ever RAMC Part One Orders have on the VC day!

In the RAMC we have no battle honours but we do have VC days that the youth should be directed to and feel rightly proud of being in the AMS.
 

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