V22 Osprey tiltrotor for AAC

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Gook, Aug 26, 2005.

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  1. What does anyone think about adopting these curious beasts for the Army's own trooplift?

    Sort of half-plane half-helo, promises to be faster and further than a helo but still as practical. I know the USMC are going to use them to transport troops and stores, and I think the American Navy want an anti-submarine and an airborne early warning version.

    Me, I think they'd be good for a carrier-based cargo plane and in-flight refueller. Could put radars on them and use them as sentries or to guide missiles over the horizon from a ship. But would they be any good in the AAC? And does anyone reckon they're safe/effective enough yet?


    Gook out

  2. I think you'd be better off wishing for something like getting BOWMAN working properly or a decent Service Rifle first.
  3. Ospreys have too many technical problems just now; the US Marines are the only ones pushing for them. They lost three I think within a few months....and can you imagine the RAF letting the AAC anywhere near them? It was bad enough fighting over Apache!
  4. As Caberthingy suggests, tilt-rotor technology is still far from mature and has been beset with huge cost over runs due to a series of redesigns caused by Congressional politics and several fatal accidents due to software and design flaws.

    However, the V-22 promises to bring a revolution in rotary wing ops and is gradually starting to show its true promise. Last I heard, the USMC and US Army hope to purchase around 400 and 200 respectively of the MV-22As assault variant; 80 CV-22A CSAR/SF variants will go to the USAF and 50 HV-22A CSAR/support variants to the USN.

    Bell are also test flying a very neat smaller version with Augusta called the BA609. Although this is primarily aimed at the civil market, it has clear militray potential and has been mooted as an advanced conversion trainer for the V-22 in US service.

    As far as UK applications go, the V-22 has clear potential to augment/replace the Chinook force. although it's huge cost and complexity when compared to rotary platforms would present funding difficulties.

    However, as Gook suggests, it would be an excellent replacement for the RN Sea King ASaC7 (SKASAC) under the Maritime Air Surveillance Capability (MASC) programme. SKASAC has the superb Searchwater 2000 radar and mission system but is hugely hampered by it's 1960's platform. The V-22 has the performance, payload and endurance to fully exploit the potential of this system once coupled with a modern ESM/DAS. However, the V-22 needs to be pressurised to realistically conduct this role and the UK cannot afford to pay for this mod and the integration of the SKASAC mission systems and sensors. Realistically, we'd need the US to share any development costs for an 'EV-22' C2 variant. Whilst the USMC have a requirement for such a platform (they have no airborne C2 capability), the poor state of USMC overall aviation funding, further slippages to the F-35B programme, and increasing absorption into the USN CAG structure mean that this is unlikely. This is a huge shame as a small fleet of RN MASC and AAR V-22s would be a superb compliment to the CVF/F-35 (assuming that the RN even get the former!).

  5. V22's have been in flight testing for some time/pre-acceptance trials.
    Although they seem to be having a few problems , one crashed a few weeks back and the whole programme is/was on hold.
    On the whole these machines ,whilst very new technology, would probably do a great job for both AAC and RN lift requirement.
    I did see a bit of problem though, the U.S. Govt. is cutting funding to the V22 Osprey project and may even cancel it, due to budgetary constraints, .
    If we want them we'd better put in our wishlist to santa sharpish !!!!
  6. Cant believe mod isnt leaping to buy these things very exspensive and they dont work .Perfect MOD product . :lol:
  7. Wouldn't those tilt rotors have a huge radar signature in the horizontal 'plane' mode ? Fine for USMC mass aerial envelopment maybe, not so good for CSAR and sneaky beaky stuff ?
  8. This program has had more delays than Eurofighter and has the ignominity of being one of the big ticket items that Dick Cheney, as SecDef to Bush 41 in the late 1980s, tried to chop. When he was in Congress it was said that he never met a weapons system he didn't like, but he sure hated this. The only reason that this project is still alive is that the USMC has its own, rather influential, cheerleading squad in Congress and, as any 'good' nascent program should, the work is being done is God only knows how many Congressional Districts.

    The platform, as has been suggested already is extremely promising, but as the US Marines are fond of saying, the last CH-46 pilot still hasn't been born yet.
  9. FrogPrince,
    No more so than a twin rotor Chinook. And don't forget the other SF assets that press deep into scary places such as the MC-130H.

    The big advantage of the V-22 is that it can transit at fixed wing speeds yet still do rotary type stuff such as putting down in a small clearing to pick up downed aircrew. Also, the majority of the bad guys still don't have AEW (despite the best attempts of the Israelis). Ergo, topography can often be exploited in the same way as other rotary/SF assets; it doesn't matter if you have the RCS the size of a guards officer's private income: if there's a lump of granite between you and a radar - the radar ain't gonna see you.
  10. MM,

    You obviously never saw the film Behind Enemy Lines. The Serbs apparently have a SAM (might be a Gucci Roland, but it's been a couple of years since I saw it) with a burn-time of what seems like 10mins and a max speed of around 400kts, that can turn corners like an F1 car, re-engage after going ballistic AND see through mountains. :roll: I would consult the nearest copy of Defence Recognition Journal for details if I were you.

    As discussed, the big disadvantage of the V-22 is that it has problems avoiding terrain, not radar.
  11. Crabtastic,
    Actually, I've not seen the film!

    The tragic crashes of V-22s during testing have inevitably attracted huge publicity in recent years. However, the V-22 is a revolutionary design and it has a huge amount of detractors in Congress; therefore, it's perhaps inevitable that this was the case.

    I've only seen a V-22 once on an exercise in the States. However, with the production model having TFR, EO, FLIR etc, there should be no reasons why it cannot employ low level tactics at least as effectively nor be as survivable as an equivalent RW platform such as the MH-53M. Additionally, it'll have the advantage of far higher transit speed. I suspect it's biggest problem may be it's aural signature.

    MM's advice to the MoD: wait another 5 years until the Spams have worked out all the snags with the aircraft and then look to buy some for JPR and/or the MASC programme.
  12. Sorry Magic mushroom you can not advise mod as you are talking sense . Please re submit proposal in jargon with latest buzz words .
    And tack on dodgy pfp or lease deal . Yon know that what mod wants :roll:
  13. Me thinks crabtastic needs to review his own words....did you see 'the film' Behind Enemy Lines. It was exactly that - a film!

    There aren't many missiles that will fanny around for 10 mins in the air! Get real.
  14. Well, duh.:roll:
  15. wasn't a large part of the problem that they were getting fixed wing pilots to try and hover it? Never heard of it crashing in fixed wing mode.......

    There is some classic footage around of someone over controlling it..