V-P Cheney Aide Turns States Evidence?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Not_Whistlin_Dixie, Oct 18, 2005.

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  1. Valerie Plame was a Non-Official Cover agent of the Central Intelligence Agency. She was and is the wife of Joseph Wilson, a former US ambassador who apparently embarassed the administration. Mr. Wilson wrote that the administration's claim, that Saddam Hussein was attempting to purchase "yellow cake" processed uranium ore from Niger, was rubbish.

    Somebody divulged Ms. Plame's status as a NOC agent.

    There's been a lot of speculation that that somebody was a big shot in the administration who was motivated by vindictiveness, coupled with a desire to silence patriotic officials who might feel inclined to challenge administration foreign policy fairy tales.

    Unprivileged public disclosure of the identity of a NOC agent is a felony.

    Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is conducting a grand jury investigation of the Plame leak.

    A Mr. John Hannah is a senior aide to V-P Cheney. He was seconded to V-P Cheney's service by then U/Sec of State (now UN ambassador) for Arms Control John Bolton.

    Mr. Hannah has turned state's evidence.

    In the linked article it is asserted that he likely did so to avoid being indicted himself.

    "Cheney aide cooperating with CIA outing probe, sources say"
    Larisa Alexandrovna and Jason Leopold
  2. NWD,
    Just curious, where has it been indicated that she was a NOC case officer (not agent, surely)? Surely as an Ambassador's wife etc. she would have official cover?
  3. Time and a serious chance of doing time dose produce the result.
    I remember at the time of Nixons Watergate one of thoes super smooth Washington folks on Nixons staff being ambushed on a live US TV show.
    Interviewer clean out of the blue says words to the effect of
    "What do you think of homosexual rape ?"
    "Er must admit I have never even thought of the subject"
    "Well as it look like your going to be doing some HARD time don't you think you should consider it ?"
    PS sorry about the HARD.
  4. Valerie was not a NOC during the time period in question. As a result there can be no crime.
  5. Wrong. Sources and methods are protected ad infinitum unless specifically declassified at the order of POTUS. There are documents that predate WW1 that are still classified to protect sources and methods. Check the IIPA:

  6. We shall see crab. The grand jury term runs out at the end of the month. Indictments if they should come will be released on either a wed or friday prior to the term expiring.
  7. The fact remains that she should have been protected for two distinct reasons:

    1. Sources and mehtods continue to be protected even after operations have been wound up. (See above point.)

    2. She was still working in the DO and therefore should still be protected. Even the analysts in the DI aren't ordinarily supposed to know the identity of case officers and reports officers.

    If the prosecutor can demonstrate conspiracy, it will be a far shorter stretch to demonstrate intent for the more serious charges. The prospect of one chap turning State's evidence certainly makes it "brown trousers and bicycle-clips" time for the Administration. It will be interesting to see if the Shaved Chimp is arrogant enough to keep Turdblossom and Scooter on the payroll. On the other hand, they would know better than most where the bodies are buried, it might be a good idea to keep them sweet.

    I can't lie though, it would make my year to see these b@stards getting nailed. If the prosecutors are sniffing around trying to net the VP, my guess is that these two ass-clowns will be cut loose without a moment's hesitation. Sadly, I can only dream of what could have happened with a Democratic Congress.

    The word for the day: Schadenfreude. If you need a definition, just think of how you felt when word got out about Clinton sticking his tube into that chubby intern's pie-hole. :twisted:

  8. One Valerie Plame is not a covert operative.

    They probably can indicted on the grounds of leaking classified information . The information being, that Valerie Plame helped her husband a former ambassador, get the Niger job. Information the public should be aware of in order to judge the credibility of the charges that Joe Wilson was making about the administration and the war in Iraq..

    If carl Rove is indicted for just leaking classified information , than half of Washington should get indicted. All those CIA agents, who keep leaking classified reports, to the Times and the Post that predict doom in Iraq may come under scrutiny.

    What is going on is the CIA who opposed the war in Iraq was leaking against the Administration and the Administration was leaking back. The press who was against the war was taking the leaks from both sides and writing their stories
  9. The stench of hypocrisy rising from the pro-Bush camp over this one is incredible. If this leak had come from, say, a Democrat, an anti-Iraq war campaigner or a foreign government the cries for "justice to protect our brave agents" would be heard from the moon. But because someone decided to stitch up her to get back at her husband for tawdry political reasons all of a sudden risking the life of a loyal American willing to put herself at risk for her country is acceptable.

    And the next time someone is offered the chance to help their country and are promised that their identity will be kept secret to ptotect them they'll know it comes with the caveat "unless we want to stitch up your loved ones for political capital". Is that a great recruiting aid or what ?
  10. A lot of Pro-Bush folks keep using this lame idea that since she was not a NOC Agent or undercover hence no crime was commited.That is utter BS,just cause she was not NOC does not make it right for ANYONE to release information about her.Go tell folks who work in the CIA and other spooky places that it is ok for their info to be leaked out to the public since they are not NOC folks.That is stupid,what happened was a crime plain and simple.You Bush folks are way to wraped up in your blind loyalty to call a spade a spade.
  11. Crabtastic;

    1. The accounts I've read said that Ms. Plame didn't travel on a diplomatic passport and that her passport and other credentials didn't reveal that she was the wife of Ambassador Wilson. I assume that, without diplomatic credentials, she'd be vulnerable to arrest for espionage in any country in which she operated.

    2. I used the word "agent" which I gather implies a more tenuous connection to the CIA than "officer." The accounts I read asserted that she was an "officer."

    3. I first saw her characterized as a NOC in Justin Raimondo's column at antiwar.com This is from Slate, a leftish/liberal site:

    Why is it such a big deal that someone outed Valerie Plame? For starters, it's a felony. And Plame was also reportedly a NOC with years of experience investigating weapons of mass destruction. If this is true, her discovery could compromise intelligence operations she was involved with around the world, which would explain why she maintained her nonofficial cover even when she was back in the United States. "Hard target" countries like China and North Korea often keep records of every known meeting between Americans and their scientists and officials. Almost certainly, those lists would have been frantically reviewed when Plame's identity was revealed, and any sources she recruited could have been exposed.


    I have read contradictory accounts as to whether or when Ms. Plame was a NOC operative. I have likewise read contradictory accounts as to when and through whom the nature of her connection to the CIA first became a matter of public knowledge.


    Larry C. Johnson

    I submit this statement to the Congress in an effort to correct a malicious and disingenuous smear campaign that has been executed against a friend and former colleague, Valerie (Plame) Wilson. Neither Valerie, nor her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson has asked me to do anything on their behalf. I am speaking up because I was raised to stop bullies. In the case of Valerie Plame she is facing a gang of bullies that is being directed by the Republican National Committee.
    I entered on duty at the CIA in September 1985 as a member of the Career Trainee Program. Senator Orin Hatch had written a letter of recommendation on my behalf and I believe that helped open the doors to me at the CIA. From the first day all members of my training class were undercover. In other words, we had to lie to our family and friends about where we worked. We could only tell those who had an absolute need to know where we worked. In my case, I told my wife. Most of us were given official cover, which means that on paper we worked for some other U.S. Government Agency. People with official cover enjoy the benefits of an official passport, usually a black passport--i.e., a diplomatic passport. If we were caught overseas engaged in espionage activity the black passport was a get out of jail free card. It accords the bearer the protections of the Geneva Convention.

    Rest of Story
  13. 18 July 2005


    The Honorable Dennis Hastert, Speaker, U.S. House of Representatives

    The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives

    The Honorable Dr. William Frist, Majority Leader of the Senate

    The Honorable Harry Reid, Minority Leader of the Senate

    We, the undersigned former U.S. intelligence officers are concerned with the tone and substance of the public debate over the ongoing Department of Justice investigation into who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, to syndicated columnist Robert Novak and other members of the media, which exposed her status as an undercover CIA officer. The disclosure of Ms. Plame’s name was a shameful event in American history and, in our professional judgment, may have damaged U.S. national security and poses a threat to the ability of U.S. intelligence gathering using human sources. Any breach of the code of confidentiality and cover weakens the overall fabric of intelligence, and, directly or indirectly, jeopardizes the work and safety of intelligence workers and their sources.

    The Republican National Committee has circulated talking points to supporters to use as part of a coordinated strategy to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife. As part of this campaign a common theme is the idea that Ambassador Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame was not undercover and deserved no protection. The following are four recent examples of this "talking point":

    Michael Medved stated on Larry King Live on July 12, 2005, "And let's be honest about this. Mrs. Plame, Mrs. Wilson, had a desk job at Langley. She went back and forth every single day."

    Victoria Toensing stated on a Fox News program with John Gibson on July 12, 2005 that, "Well, they weren't taking affirmative measures to protect that identity. They gave her a desk job in Langley. You don't really have somebody deep undercover going back and forth to Langley, where people can see them."

    Ed Rodgers, Washington Lobbyist and former Republican official, said on July 13, 2005 on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer, "And also I think it is now a matter of established fact that Mrs. Plame was not a protected covert agent, and I don't think there's any meaningful investigation about that."

    House majority whip Roy Blunt (R, Mo), on Face the Nation, July 17, 2005, "It certainly wouldn't be the first time that the CIA might have been overzealous in sort of maintaining the kind of top-secret definition on things longer than they needed to. You know, this was a job that the ambassador's wife had that she went to every day. It was a desk job. I think many people in Washington understood that her employment was at the CIA, and she went to that office every day."

    These comments reveal an astonishing ignorance of the intelligence community and the role of cover. The fact is that there are thousands of U.S. intelligence officers who "work at a desk" in the Washington, D.C. area every day who are undercover. Some have official cover, and some have non-official cover. Both classes of cover must and should be protected.

    Rest of Story

    it is not ok to reveal the identity of any person who works in intel even if they are desk riders.It is NOT ok
  14. Cheers for the gen, chaps.


    In this case the law exists not so much to protect the case officer, but to protect those who acted as her agents. Right now, anyone in a country where she has been sent in the past 20 years who knew her is now under suspicion. Furthermore, ask yourselves, what be the likely impact on future operations and recruitment of agents when officers (and their agents) get exposed? It would also make life difficult for the agency to persuade companies to allow NOCs to use them as cover. Being known as a company that is involved in espionage can be quite bad for business.

    "OK Abdul. I'm going to ask you to commit treason against your country. In the interests of full disclosure I have to warn you that there's a good chance that at some point in the future, the need for political expediency will result in some geriatric reactionary blowhard plastering my name all over the Chicago Tribune and the World's media, thus putting your life and the life of your family in jeopardy. Still interested?