USMC Shooting Casualties

#1
So, your'e in the same shoes as that grunt. Suicide bombers are a way of life and the bodies of your enemy are routinely booby-trapped.

When a wounded insurgent starts moving, what would you do?
 
#6
I doubt there are many of us on this site who wouldn't give the guy the benefit of doubt aor at least appreciate his actions - better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 etc.

What suprises me is that the head sheds have put a great deal of effort in keeping the world away from falluja, even to the extent of keeping the Red Cresent away. Undoubtedly this is, in part at least, an effort to prevent neutrals/NGOs/returning DPs/indep media from getting caught in the crossfire of ongoing mop ups; but I'm sure they also realised that they didn't want the (clearly partisan) press casting their naive and sentationalist eye on the very dirty, but (from the military view) necessary aspects of the job at hand. Pictures of the dead reportedly still laying in the streets don't make for happy hearts and minds; what is more, the spams are clearly making the most of their HE - Go Big, Go Home seems to be the order of the day and these aspects are unpalletable to a wider world who learns about the realities of war from Ewan MacGregor and Jude Law.

So with this thinking in mind, why are they putting unnecesarry pressure on the boys on the ground by letting inbeds go out with them? they're clearly still in a shooting war, even if only at brick/multiple level. Let the inbeds show the mortar teams and patrols relaxing, let's even let them out (with some experienced SNCOs close at hand) on some of the quieter patrols, but in this case they knew they were going to cross paths with the insurgents in the mosque. It doesn't figure to my mind.

The heads of sheds are placing these guys in an impossible situation. Deal with the ultimate asymetric threat - suicide bombers - but do it bearing in mind NBC is watching your every move.
 
#7
its not all that long ago that a US serviceman was charged with murder for doing the same thing at a car theyd riddled at a checkpoint in Iraq.
He went down, so i would imagine that this fella is going the same way. Its not the way we the military, percieve things, its how the law and public at the time do. Mr Joseph Public is very touchy feely these days.
USMC bloke, if you do get charged remember this, if you drop the soap, LEAVE IT!!
 
#8
WhiteHorse said:
Agent_Smith said:
Two to the head!!!!

check mag and on to the next room....

agent smith :twisted:
Was that the Jurno or the Suicide bomber?
Ah, but he wasn't a suicide bomber was he. You know how the press love the privilidge of hindsite. They won't care about the circumstances, lack of sleep, combat stress etc etc.

Very easy to sit in judgement behind a desk, in front of a camera, in a nice warm studio. Is it me, or have the public forgotten that people die in wars?
 
#9
In the early days of the 'Nam, US patrols used to have to radio back to get permission to return incoming fire. (some say as far back as the UN but I don't really believe that).

It wasn't long before the first casualty of any contact was the radio.

Cameramen go figure.
 
#10
CrapSpy said:
WhiteHorse said:
Agent_Smith said:
Two to the head!!!!

check mag and on to the next room....

agent smith :twisted:
Was that the Jurno or the Suicide bomber?
Ah, but he wasn't a suicide bomber was he. You know how the press love the privilidge of hindsite. They won't care about the circumstances, lack of sleep, combat stress etc etc.

Very easy to sit in judgement behind a desk, in front of a camera, in a nice warm studio. Is it me, or have the public forgotten that people die in wars?
Why do we allow the jurno's with us and why do we protect them if they shaft us at every turn?
 
#11
To give the media the benefit of the doubt, I don't think they seek to shaft us. I just think that they wait for us to shaft ourselves.

Does anybody think that a marine shooting an unarmed man (irrespective of the circumstances), wouldn't be newsworthy?
 
#14
CrapSpy said:
Is it me, or have the public forgotten that people die in wars?
this sums it up for me, at the end of the the day this is a combat operation, therfor as stateted earlier you do not wait and and see if maybe just might be able to change the headline from, "USMC shoots dead Iraqi Casualty" to "6 US Marines Killed in suicide bomb",

but then again the real truth of the matter is that the headline should not be either of those, there is as stated this wonderfull thing called hindsite, this man may not have been a bomber, but he may just well have been!!, therfore the yank may have been acting in the safest way possible

all IMHO



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#15
Stoatman said:

Ask the embedded journalist to go check!!!
That should be SOP. If this was a laughing matter, I’d be laughing out loud. The only guy who knows exactly why the apparently wounded man was shot is the Marine and in the short term no-one outside his unit and the MPs will get to hear his side of the story.

The terrorists don’t fight according to the laws and customs of war and even if the Marine just made a bad call, he was protecting himself, his brothers and the embedded shithouse. He didn’t dance on the remains of the dead, did he? The Americans (and allies) are still giving quarter when their opponents give none. Chivalry is not in the terrorist vocabulary. We infidels have a long way to go before our 'barbarism' matches that of the terrorist.

This is not the same thing as accepting a surrender, disarming the prisoner, putting him in a field with other prisoners and throwing grenades amongst them. Journalists should know this, because they know everything.
 
#17
This is yet another reason why the media should f**k off in Iraq - why not shoot the wounded terrorists? Only moments before the Marine that did the shooting probably saw a few of his friends get injured or loose limbs to these bastards!!

Its easy for the media to sit back and go 'oh help the poor injured terrorists'. F**K THEM! :cry:

Maybe they should remember that the terrorists are trying to kill the Marines......in any way possible.........including the 'white flag' technique.
 
#18
As has benn said, only the marine has the answers as to why he shot the guy. None of us are clearly in a position to cast judgement on his actions. However, I have to say, the marines do not do themselves any favours by their 'attitudes' (for want of a better word). If you read the transcripts of their voices pre and post incident, you can't imagine a Brit soldier acting in that way.

At the end of the day, their is no difference between this incident and similar incidents in NI, Lee Clegg for example. The public appear to be supportive of their troops doing what they do, but as soon as something goes slightly awry, they are the first to criticise. There is no consideration for the poor guy on the ground who has to make the split second decision. Hesitiation will only lead to casulaties or deaths of your own team.

On to the subject of journos. When will we ever learn that they are more of a hindrence than a help. All they end up doing in their quest to keep the public informed is prolong the fighting and make the job harder for us and easier for the enemy. We all remember the press commenting on the fact that the Argies were not setting the fuses correctly on their bombs for the low level tactics of their air force. Next day....correctly set fuses!
 
#19
eye_spy said:
On to the subject of journos. When will we ever learn that they are more of a hindrence than a help. All they end up doing in their quest to keep the public informed is prolong the fighting and make the job harder for us and easier for the enemy.
Shouldn't that read entertained? Informed suggests that the great british (and others) public gives a toss about the facts. The news has just become a new type of reality TV, Big Brother with a bit of blood. :evil:
 
#20
Fuchs66 said:
Shouldn't that read entertained? Informed suggests that the great british (and others) public gives a toss about the facts. The news has just become a new type of reality TV, Big Brother with a bit of blood. :evil:
Absolutely correct F66. Thank you
 

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