USMC organisation as a model for a future British Army/RN?

uavgunner

Old-Salt
Intersetingly there is a document floating around at the moment which is a series of interviews with commanders from Herrick 16 and one says something to the effect of "If I ever go to war I'd want to go as part of a Marine Air-Ground Task Force becuse it is a workable model" Im inclined to agree with him and I'm sure with all the cooperation we have had with the USMC in Helmand a few other people think the same as well.I see little point in having two under strength Divisions (of which we could probably on field one fully equipped) when we could pool the available equipment to form a decent sized expeditionary manoeuvre warfare formation,Forget the one army concept we should perhaps be looking more at a one armed forces concept.

Apologies for the thread revive.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
Well I guess when we take eventually make it beyond our star system, and working on the premise we may come across hostiles, then there will only be Army, RM, and RN. RAF and AAC will probably merge (as there will be no AIR) back into RFC, and FAA will probably be assigned Ship protection. So there is bound to be what is described eventually, and the USN/USMC model is bound to be the way forward in the interim.
 

uavgunner

Old-Salt
Another idea probably well suited to a peace support or low intensity COIN would be a modular brigade that can be airlifted quickly similar to US Stryker brigades?.
 
Another idea probably well suited to a peace support or low intensity COIN would be a modular brigade that can be airlifted quickly similar to US Stryker brigades?.
An interesting idea - trouble is we don't have anything like it, although this might change if and when the ASCOD SV arrives. I have taken the liberty of attaching an ORBAT (from Wiki):
 

Attachments

uavgunner

Old-Salt
True although we probably should,but if the CoC and Government don't see the merit of a modular light armoured combind arms force that can deploy in 92hrs hours to engage in the kind of conflict we have/will be in then I think we will be seeing ourselves off.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
We just need to make the Navy bigger and give them the correct tools for the job.

There is nothing the Army and Air Force do that the RN/RM can't do better, with the exception of riding horses.




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Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
To expand on my post above:

Lets look at some key features of the Army and RAF and what they do.

Infantry/RAF regiment/paras etc. - Already done by RM.

Special Forces/SAS - Already done by SBS.

Fast jets - Used to be done by FAA until the RAF got a sad on because they realised their future existence relied on the FAA not being better than them.

Helos - The best helicopter pilots in the world are FAA. I defy anyone to prove me wrong on that point.

Logistics - The RN has probably the most complex supply and logistics chain in the entire forces, due to the nature of supplying ships at sea. Add the RFA to the mix and we're laughing.

Bomb disposal - Carried out by RN divers.

UAVs - Lads currently being trained up to operate off the new carriers. By all accounts it's a piece of piss.

That basically leaves tanks which are largely irrelavent in this day and age and air transport which is where failed fighter pilots go to work.



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Ravers said:
To expand on my post above:

Lets look at some key features of the Army and RAF and what they do.

Infantry/RAF regiment/paras etc. - Already done by RM.

Special Forces/SAS - Already done by SBS.

Fast jets - Used to be done by FAA until the RAF got a sad on because they realised their future existence relied on the FAA not being better than them.

Helos - The best helicopter pilots in the world are FAA. I defy anyone to prove me wrong on that point.

Logistics - The RN has probably the most complex supply and logistics chain in the entire forces, due to the nature of supplying ships at sea. Add the RFA to the mix and we're laughing.

Bomb disposal - Carried out by RN divers.

UAVs - Lads currently being trained up to operate off the new carriers. By all accounts it's a piece of piss.

That basically leaves tanks which are largely irrelavent in this day and age and air transport which is where failed fighter pilots go to work.
When most officers refer to "tri-service" I normally keep saying that shouldn't they mean "Quad-Services" FAA, Surface, Marines AND SUBMARINES! We work everywhere! ;)
 
To expand on my post above:

Lets look at some key features of the Army and RAF and what they do.

Infantry/RAF regiment/paras etc. - Already done by RM.

Special Forces/SAS - Already done by SBS.

Fast jets - Used to be done by FAA until the RAF got a sad on because they realised their future existence relied on the FAA not being better than them.

Helos - The best helicopter pilots in the world are FAA. I defy anyone to prove me wrong on that point.

Logistics - The RN has probably the most complex supply and logistics chain in the entire forces, due to the nature of supplying ships at sea. Add the RFA to the mix and we're laughing.

Bomb disposal - Carried out by RN divers.

UAVs - Lads currently being trained up to operate off the new carriers. By all accounts it's a piece of piss.

That basically leaves tanks which are largely irrelavent in this day and age and air transport which is where failed fighter pilots go to work.



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The British army should be a projectile to be fired by the British navy. - Lord Edward Grey (Grey of Fallodon, 1st Viscount)
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
When most officers refer to "tri-service" I normally keep saying that shouldn't they mean "Quad-Services" FAA, Surface, Marines AND SUBMARINES! We work everywhere! ;)
On, Under, Over & Off. Hmmm there's something to that I just can't put my finger in it.







On it dammit, on it.
 
I dont think that "combining" the forces will save any money or increase the efficiency of our ability to carry out our tasks. There are three very different battle spaces. They do overlap but that doesnt mean that the services need to be amalgamated it just means that they actually need to work together for the greater good. Even if they were amalgamated it the different arms would still manage to dislike each other (like skimmers and sun dodgers in the RN or fast jet and multi engine in the RAF.)

The USMC is an amazing fighting force with capabilities that we rightly drool over. But they still work in conjunction with the three main services.

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The advantages of the USMC include:

- self contained all arms task org
- expeditionary geared
- rapidly deployable
- lightly equipped (but still on the heavy side)
- unified command



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T

Tinman74

Guest
Ravers you mad ****, you may have a point, apart from the tanks. Every one needs tanks, just find some voluntolds to pilot them, job jobbed!


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Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
I agree it would be the best program idea for the UK but it will never happen as the USMC has fewer brass and they wont let a cull happen - we probably have more staff now than when the army was 200k strong.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
Ravers you mad ****, you may have a point, apart from the tanks. Every one needs tanks, just find some voluntolds to pilot them, job jobbed!


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hover tanks - ship deployable :)
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The advantages of the USMC include:

- self contained all arms task org
- expeditionary geared
- rapidly deployable
- lightly equipped (but still on the heavy side)
- unified command



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Bonus that despite their own nice budget, the big ticket expensive floaty things they use to get about are entirely USN, which seems to get forgotten when people are making comparisons with other forces, massive saving there.
 
- expeditionary geared
- rapidly deployable
- lightly equipped (but still on the heavy side)
Currently not expeditionary - but working hard to be once more. Not that rapidly deployable and certainly not lightly equipped by British standards. A very different force who aren't nearly as rapid or agile as they want to be or you think they are.
 

llech

LE
All very well but would they have to dress up as militant ice cream men and do the spinny rifle crap?
 
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