USMC Iraq withdrawal?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by winnfield, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. USMC, US Army afghan-iraq responsibilty swap. Very interesting idea.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/washington/11military.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
     
  2. better ask our resident US Marine. USMARYX, any opinions?
     
  3. USMuppet had her account terminated, we're currently awaiting her next incarnation.

    As to the article, sounds like a good idea to me. USAF won't like it, of course, as they like to think they're indispensable, but I've no doubt the Marines would be chuffed to bits to have their own guys permanently overhead. Can they keep it sustained is the only question.
     
  4. hmm.. im not sure

    im sure theyve had enough of not being able to shoot people in iraq
    so afghanistan seems to be a good option, either that or iran xD


    i qoute

    "The American military prides itself on the ability to go to war as a “joint force,”

    well if that was true why an earth do they have the marines??
     
  5. Call me a synical git, but there's a lot less media in Afgan, and we all know how much Uncle Sam's Misguided Children like to shoot up all and sundry........
     
  6. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    IMHO, I doubt that this action will take place!

    As for USMC CAS, I would prefer to be supported by USMC air support than the USAF anytime. :wink:
     
  7. Although it is not clear from the NY Times article above I have read elsewhere that the driving force behind this is that they are about to withdraw large numbers from Anbar.

    Hopefully they will be able to sort out their tour intervals as the current situation is horrendous for them.

    Having worked with them recently during pre tour trg for Iraq that is c**p. I saw very little difference in their attitude to using lethal force than I would expect to see from a British unit.
     
  8. The USMC is extremely belligerent. It's also institutionally far more suitable for counter-insurgency than the US Army of whom they've been rather critical of in Iraq.

    They have a long history of fighting in colonial wars and a not insubstantial body of small war doctrines.They'd be very welcome in Hellmand.

    A very good officer. I just hope he's got over the idea of punishing Afghan misogynists. That's what buggered the Reds in Kabul.
     
  9. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    I would have to disagree with your blanket statement on the US Army overall. The critical marks for the Army usually come from the conventional units.

    The US Army's Special Forces units, have been doing a great job both in Iraq and Afganistan on COIN ops as well as training special Iraqi and special Afghan units in the Army and Police.

    Our SF units were designed to perform UW and COIN operations and have vast experience in Vietnam, the PI, Afganistan and other places around thhe world. :wink:
     
  10. Frankly the idea is pretty sound and would offer up a number of advantages to all except the US Army who would be left holding the very unpopular and unwanted baastard currently known as Iraq. For that reason alone, the Army will do everything to prevent it happening.

    Let's face it, it's nothing more than a copy of Blair's plan circa late 2003 to shift from Iraq to Afghanistan. Mind you, that was based upon the deluded idea that both were going to be a success and a UK Bde could 'lead' in AFG!
     
  11. With respect you are talking about the margins of the institution where some of Americas finest soldiers have often collected. The US Army is a great instrument of destruction but it is a sledgehammer decidedly unsuitable for the rapier work of neo-colonial warfare.

    The US Army has demonstrated it has units suitable for this kind of war but they are few and often when rotated out all they achieved was often undone. It's notable that officers like McMasters or Petraeus looked like eccentrics a couple of year ago. Other senior officers still seemed to think they are fighting a kinetic war in open desert. Look at how 2nd ID or the 82nd Airborne were led in the first two years and you'll understand why Mattis initially put his guys in in Khaki and black boots when he came to Al Anbar. The Marines lost a lot of guys there; they would not have if those who had proceeded them had had been led men mentally equipped for COIN.

    The Marines results in Iraq have often been as disappointing as Basra but I do think the USMC could shine if given its head in the Afghan war.
     
  12. Translation, most of the coming decade of Iraq work is going to be standing back and letting the Iraqi's try to handle things whilst offering traing and support if needed. Which is boring. If it's a choice between that and some actually war fighting I'll take door number two please Monty.

    The US Marine Corp has an incredible track record for PR work and burninshing their image, ignoring the few infrequent clusterfucks. Whilst a lot of the other arguments can be perfectly valid I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't factored in somewhere near the top. Get out from under the Iraq mess and jump horses to the 'good' war that's about getting rid of the nutjob Taliban.

    Someone's thrown a hissy fit, look out for the bureaucratic in-fighting coming soon.

    From what I'm vaguely remembering from the ex-jarheads that I know Marine aviation wing is mostly built and trained around close air support and backing up the grunts on the ground. As opposed to the air force who have a reputation for consaidering that kind of work to be somewhat second class and below shooting down other planes or running bombing campaigns. Keep the squadrons flying the A-10s though and you'd be fine.

    Bingo! 'Look at us over still involved in proper fighting as opposed to sitting about doinf peace keeping bullshit. You certainly wouldn't want to cut our funding would you?' :)
     
  13. Interservice rivalry at its finest. The USMC has been playing second fiddle to the army and they want to command their own theater. I would much rather shift them into Basra to take out the pro-Iranian militias.
     
  14. Clusterfcuk's and fubar's aside... what did you expect?

    The 1 mil USMC are our embeds, and they is wanting to follow our armour out of basra into the stan.

    It's a chuffin compliment you tools ;)
     
  15. Not a professional so please don't think I'm taking myself seriously, but wouldn't the USAF still be needed in Afghanistan for their heavy-bombers and A-10s?