Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Mr Happy, Nov 17, 2004.
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Has The USMC done well?
I for one have been very impressed, their drills as I've hinted at were poor (exposed positions, shooting out of windows from the ledge, room clearence skills poor) but the worse you enemy, the sloppier you are...
But I am absolutely proud of the boys and they've raised my opinion of the US forces five fold - it's good to win...
Leaving aside the usual banter/rivalry about the yanks I am very surprised at how low the USMC casualties were, good drills I think in this case the yanks didnt hold back on ammo, unlike our esteemed senior leaders, 50 rounds a man?
Well done USMC, good score.
they're still learning. Good to see the low casualty rate. That one awww shit with shooting a wounded insurgent on camera, was not one of our shining moments though. Reckon I'll have to wait for this investigation to get published before we know the full truth of that matter.
I'm more concerned with what happens after the fact with Fallujah. Will the insurgents just filter back in and start all over again?
Depends on how you define "well".
Did they (the odd piece of TV footage aside) perform professionally ? Yes.
Did they kill loads of insurgents ? Yes.
Did they uphold the traditions of the USMC ? Yes.
Did they achieve the mission ? Yes.
Did the mission contribute to victory in Iraq ? No.
Did the mission make people in Falluja feel grateful to the US ? No.
Did the mission make the rest of Iraq safer ? No.
Was the mission a victory for Coalition media ops ? No.
Ultimately this operation will not make a blind bit of difference to the outcome. That battle will be won or lost inside the minds of Iraqis.
Difficult to say, works on different levels:
Tactical level - probably did well, friendly casualties low, although this should not mitigate the tragedy of each life lost.
Strategic level - status quo maintained - tangos gone elsewhere, some troops moved to Mosul.
Political level - disaster.
They did a lot better than I thought. Losses were low, they did it on schedule, and doesn't look like here are too many civ casualties, all things considered.
Biggest drawback is that it does look like they completely trashed the city, but so long as the US gets the cheque book out, all that really means is lots of jobs for the returning residents in the construction industry. It'll keep them busy and give some some cash.
It'll be interesting to see if this really does take the fight out of the insurgents. I think a lot of the foreign jihadis will pack up and go - they've had their big showdown with the US, not much else to do - probably enough of them got killed or captured that the rest will melt away.
None of which alters the fact that elections in January will be a complete joke, but hey. Still, fair enough USMC.
One thing is certain +1600 tangos are dead and another +400 were taken prisoner thats a large number of enemy that wont be setting IED's, conducting mortar/rocket attacks or murdering innocent people. It will be up to the Iraqi government to keep a lid on Falluja and to win the hearts and minds of the Sunni's or else there will be civil war.
The USMC has no input into the decisions that affect these.
This was their bit and in my opinion the boys done well.
I specifically meant the troops on the ground, your 'no' answer is directed at the Politico's.
Then let's get set for civil war then. The Iraqi government is not in control of anything unless US or UK troops are sitting on top of it. They can't even defend their own police stations for crying out loud, let alone provide security for reconstruction.
mr happy theUSMC performed outstandingly,no way would the brits have the tolerated the kind of casualties and combat intensity of the corps
SEMPER FI GUYS,AND OH YEAH HOOAH
You mean we wouldn't have tolerated as many unnecessary civilian deaths ? Quite right.
I am currently working in Baghdad so probably have had a better view than most of events in Fallujah recently. The Marines did, and are still doing, an excellent job there. This was full on FIBUA against an enemy who used the terrain and stood and fought. True, the Marines did have considerable firepower at their disposal, but they still had to fight through and clear the whole town. I have been impressed with what I have seen.
They are now getting the civilian population back into their houses.
Oh, and for information - OORAH = USMC, HOOAH = US Army. Don't ask - even they Americans can't explain what it's all about.
Separate names with a comma.