USA to remove 9,500 troops from Germany

Thanks for the link. Another military leader I need to read more about; I knew of his wartime role but not the pre-match and the after match party.

The immediate effect of the further withdrawal will be the reduction of MWR faculties that British personnel know, love and occasionally abuse.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
But the money those troops spend will remain in the American economy and not in the German economy. Which is politically popular. BO pulled out two armored brigades, and the US presence will continue to decline. It is almost as if we are planning for a long term break from Germany, when Merkel calls it.
Most of it does regardless, Every US base I've been in uses dollars, has a PX which sells US goods, and a large proportion of the troops rarely set foot outside the base.
 

Dr Death

War Hero
The Don needs them on the streets to protect him & other whites from rioters, allegedly.
 
Having to spoke to a few US mil who have gone to and/or gone to Germany as a posting they loved it. I think there will be a few unhappy soldiers that it’s now limited or you go for the joys of Poland!
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
Having to spoke to a few US mil who have gone to and/or gone to Germany as a posting they loved it. I think there will be a few unhappy soldiers that it’s now limited or you go for the joys of Poland!
Just like many British forces and their families. I look back at my time in Germany (as an RAF brat, as an adult soldier and visiting as a parent of a soldier) with nothing but fondness. In fact, on my last visit to Paderborn when the majority of the UK forces had already pulled out, the visit was tinged with sadness as we travelled to those places where we had lived and worked which were now empty, run down and hollow.
 
As it's in CA perhaps you'd like to make a relevant comment? It's IMO yet more posturing and huffing, if he does pull them out and back to the USA he's given a kick in the teeth to NATO, which may well have been his intent as he doesn't like/understand NATO and what it does. If he puts them into Poland all he's done is disrupt a lot of people to no actual effect.
Pres.Trump needs troops in the USA itself to use them against the rioters.
 
Most of it does regardless, Every US base I've been in uses dollars, has a PX which sells US goods, and a large proportion of the troops rarely set foot outside the base.
Yes, many remain on the installation. But many don’t.

So far the Dem’s have yet to complain or be critical of the move. The Hawks don’t like it, but they can be ignored on this issue.
 
Read the story - he wants to pressurise Merkel.

Seems to think Germany is keen to keep America engaged. It was true once , not sure it remains true today.
With the EU Army of the fatherland on it's way, surely Europe can look after it's own
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Just like many British forces and their families. I look back at my time in Germany (as an RAF brat, as an adult soldier and visiting as a parent of a soldier) with nothing but fondness. In fact, on my last visit to Paderborn when the majority of the UK forces had already pulled out, the visit was tinged with sadness as we travelled to those places where we had lived and worked which were now empty, run down and hollow.
Context on UK 's planned drawdown:


The UK's armed forces have had a presence in Germany since the end of World War II. There are currently around 4,000 British military personnel living and working in Germany.

As far back as 2010 former Prime Minister David Cameron announced the early withdrawal of all British forces from German soil by 2020, 15 years earlier than many had expected.

At that time it was said that British forces contributed an estimated €1.3 billion to the German economy each year. There was estimated to be 20,000 soldiers working at 12 bases in North Rhine-Westphalia and Lower Saxony.
 
Having to spoke to a few US mil who have gone to and/or gone to Germany as a posting they loved it. I think there will be a few unhappy soldiers that it’s now limited or you go for the joys of Poland!
Until they discover the joys of Monica, Agata, Magda, and Agnieszka. Much cheaper than Ingrid Ulrika and Astrid. After many years in London, have also learned to shave their arm pits and legs.
 
US allies pay to have US bases on their soil, even if the bases aren't there for their benefit. Many of the US bases in Europe are there to support US operations in the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa.

These payments though don't cover the full cost of the bases and the wages of the US troops.

Trump has been demanding what he calls "cost plus 50", where the host country must pay the full costs of the base, including the pay of the troops and civilian employees, plus another 50% on top of that to ensure that the US turns a profit on having the bases.

This would result in an increase in costs to the host countries of 5 or 6 times over what they pay now, and they have been resisting it.

Under the formula, countries would pay the full cost of stationing American troops on their territory, plus 50 percent more, said US and foreign officials familiar with the idea, which could have allies contributing five times what they provide.

Trump calls the formula “cost plus 50,” and it has struck fear in the hearts of US allies who view it as extortionate.
The US demanded $5 billion per year from South Korea.
A South Korean lawmaker said last week that U.S. officials demanded up to $5 billion a year, more than five times what Seoul agreed to pay this year under a one-year deal, for stationing the 28,500 U.S. troops.

U.S. officials have not publicly confirmed the number, but Trump has previously said the U.S. military presence in and around South Korea was “$5 billion worth of protection”.
South Korea dug their heels in over these demands last year, and refused to pay more than an 8.5% increase, for a total of $925 million. They wanted a 5 year deal but the US refused more than a 1 year deal, presumably meaning they will come back again this year with another demand for a higher price, if they haven't done so already.

South Korea and Japan pay the US in cash. Germany has limited their payments to in kind, that is goods, services, and labour, and refused to pay in actual cash. This has had the US upset, who not only want more money from the Germans for the bases, but they want it in hard cash.

The Pentagon are not happy with all this, because a number of these countries are going to simply show the US the door, leaving the Pentagon without a number of very important bases. They will also have to scrape together the money for new base facilities either in the US or wherever it is they move to.

Poland have apparently offered to pay the US $1 billion, although it's not clear whether that is per year or over a period of time, nor whether that is cash (as the US want), or in the form of facilities and labour.

The Germans don't really care if the US leaves Germany or stays. I would not be surprised if the Germans have told the US where they could ram their financial demands and this has been the US response.
 
US allies pay to have US bases on their soil, even if the bases aren't there for their benefit. Many of the US bases in Europe are there to support US operations in the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa.

These payments though don't cover the full cost of the bases and the wages of the US troops.

Trump has been demanding what he calls "cost plus 50", where the host country must pay the full costs of the base, including the pay of the troops and civilian employees, plus another 50% on top of that to ensure that the US turns a profit on having the bases.

This would result in an increase in costs to the host countries of 5 or 6 times over what they pay now, and they have been resisting it.



The US demanded $5 billion per year from South Korea.


South Korea dug their heels in over these demands last year, and refused to pay more than an 8.5% increase, for a total of $925 million. They wanted a 5 year deal but the US refused more than a 1 year deal, presumably meaning they will come back again this year with another demand for a higher price, if they haven't done so already.

South Korea and Japan pay the US in cash. Germany has limited their payments to in kind, that is goods, services, and labour, and refused to pay in actual cash. This has had the US upset, who not only want more money from the Germans for the bases, but they want it in hard cash.

The Pentagon are not happy with all this, because a number of these countries are going to simply show the US the door, leaving the Pentagon without a number of very important bases. They will also have to scrape together the money for new base facilities either in the US or wherever it is they move to.

Poland have apparently offered to pay the US $1 billion, although it's not clear whether that is per year or over a period of time, nor whether that is cash (as the US want), or in the form of facilities and labour.

The Germans don't really care if the US leaves Germany or stays. I would not be surprised if the Germans have told the US where they could ram their financial demands and this has been the US response.
Mrs Par Avion follows the Korean news and says that feeling in the country now is that if the USA wants to leave South Korea then they are free to go. They want them to stay but resent being blackmailed. They are willing to pay twice the costs of the troops but not 5 times. They have already paid 7 billion dollars for a brand spanking new base at Camp Humpfries 40 k South of Seoul to replace the garrison at Yongsan and the camps near the DMZ.

Nearly all the US troops would be stationed there and at the Osan USAF base nearby. It wil be the biggest American base outside the USA. There is only one US Infantry Division in Korea - 2 ID. The ROKA consists of 5 Corps, well trained with modern high tech weopons, and the same with the Navy and Air Force. The US presence was just a tripwire while it was stationed near the DMZ. If the North Koreans started anything now the ROK army would be headed for Pyongyang as fast as the speed limit would allow them.
 
US allies pay to have US bases on their soil, even if the bases aren't there for their benefit. Many of the US bases in Europe are there to support US operations in the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa.

These payments though don't cover the full cost of the bases and the wages of the US troops.

Trump has been demanding what he calls "cost plus 50", where the host country must pay the full costs of the base, including the pay of the troops and civilian employees, plus another 50% on top of that to ensure that the US turns a profit on having the bases.

This would result in an increase in costs to the host countries of 5 or 6 times over what they pay now, and they have been resisting it.



The US demanded $5 billion per year from South Korea.


South Korea dug their heels in over these demands last year, and refused to pay more than an 8.5% increase, for a total of $925 million. They wanted a 5 year deal but the US refused more than a 1 year deal, presumably meaning they will come back again this year with another demand for a higher price, if they haven't done so already.

South Korea and Japan pay the US in cash. Germany has limited their payments to in kind, that is goods, services, and labour, and refused to pay in actual cash. This has had the US upset, who not only want more money from the Germans for the bases, but they want it in hard cash.

The Pentagon are not happy with all this, because a number of these countries are going to simply show the US the door, leaving the Pentagon without a number of very important bases. They will also have to scrape together the money for new base facilities either in the US or wherever it is they move to.

Poland have apparently offered to pay the US $1 billion, although it's not clear whether that is per year or over a period of time, nor whether that is cash (as the US want), or in the form of facilities and labour.

The Germans don't really care if the US leaves Germany or stays. I would not be surprised if the Germans have told the US where they could ram their financial demands and this has been the US response.
It would be interesting to know if that's be tried here with the various RAF establishments used by USVF.
 
Im fairly sure Tp reductions were planned and advertised under Obama as part of the change in posture to face China. Crimea and Ukraine caused a rapid pause, which is now being caught up with.
 
US allies pay to have US bases on their soil, even if the bases aren't there for their benefit. Many of the US bases in Europe are there to support US operations in the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa.

These payments though don't cover the full cost of the bases and the wages of the US troops.

Trump has been demanding what he calls "cost plus 50", where the host country must pay the full costs of the base, including the pay of the troops and civilian employees, plus another 50% on top of that to ensure that the US turns a profit on having the bases.

This would result in an increase in costs to the host countries of 5 or 6 times over what they pay now, and they have been resisting it.



The US demanded $5 billion per year from South Korea.


South Korea dug their heels in over these demands last year, and refused to pay more than an 8.5% increase, for a total of $925 million. They wanted a 5 year deal but the US refused more than a 1 year deal, presumably meaning they will come back again this year with another demand for a higher price, if they haven't done so already.

South Korea and Japan pay the US in cash. Germany has limited their payments to in kind, that is goods, services, and labour, and refused to pay in actual cash. This has had the US upset, who not only want more money from the Germans for the bases, but they want it in hard cash.

The Pentagon are not happy with all this, because a number of these countries are going to simply show the US the door, leaving the Pentagon without a number of very important bases. They will also have to scrape together the money for new base facilities either in the US or wherever it is they move to.

Poland have apparently offered to pay the US $1 billion, although it's not clear whether that is per year or over a period of time, nor whether that is cash (as the US want), or in the form of facilities and labour.

The Germans don't really care if the US leaves Germany or stays. I would not be surprised if the Germans have told the US where they could ram their financial demands and this has been the US response.
so what’s the Problem? I assume you support this decision then?

The Problem all you U.S hater have is when they are gone - you are going to get Gand banged by all and sundry, because you decided a liberal ramming was preferable to making a decision that would actually benefit the country.
 
With the EU Army of the fatherland on it's way, surely Europe can look after it's own
with the What? La patrie, that went well didn't it. I d say the parallels are there. The point is that at least on paper the EU should be able to look after it's own, practice is another matter with a totally split command structure. You only have to look at the EU's response in Ukraine.
 

Zhopa

War Hero
The most striking thing for me about this whole story is how little is known about what is actually being planned - even whether it is actually a plan to be implemented rather than a threat - and yet everybody, media, pols, the lot, are reacting as though it is already happening.

If you read the media reporting (which is the only source since there has been ZERO official announcement from the US) it all comes back to two or three off the record sources in the White House. Meanwhile EUCOM and the Pentagon know nothing about it.

It may be it's all true - but let's not, yet, rule out the possibility that this is a Trump whim, or threat to NATO, or snub to Merkel, or gift to Putin, that has been allowed to run and run since September because none of the grown-ups had until now found out about it.

Let's consider the logistics of getting 9,500 US servicemembers (their word) out of Germany and into somewhere else, together with their families, at three months' notice - regardless of which service they are from or what they are doing in Germany in the first place. No wonder EUCOM is saying "huh?"
 
Top