US troops cleared over shooting

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4483949.stm

US military investigators have cleared American soldiers of any wrongdoing over the death of an Italian agent, who was shot at a checkpoint in Baghdad.

Nicola Calipari was killed by US forces as he travelled in a car near Baghdad airport after securing the release of Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena.
Let's ask ourselves, did we hear about similar cases previously? Nope. Is it simply coincidence? It is possible of course, but what are alternative explanations?

The US military had also said they had no knowledge of the rescue mission, dismissing as "absurd" Ms Sgrena's suggestion that their troops may have deliberately targeted her car.

Just after the incident, in an interview with Sky Italia TV, she said it was possible the soldiers had targeted her because Washington opposed the policy of negotiating with kidnappers.
Ms Sgrena is too naive. She herself is of zero interest for USA secret services. But Nicola Calipari could be very dangerous. Is it strange? Not at all. Mr.Calipari no doubt knew many interesting thing. What is possible scenario?

During a meeting with kidnappers mr.Calipari saw a person who (and he knew it pretty well) was American agent. It is one step from there to prove involvement of Americans in kidnapping of Italian journalist from communist newspaper.

The US military said the car carrying Mr Calipari was speeding as it approached the temporary checkpoint in western Baghdad.

They claimed the soldiers used "hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and firing warning shots" to get the driver to stop.
Look, the checkpoint was a temporary one. No doubt that there is a lot of permanent checkpoints on the road to airport and the car was checked (all cars are being checked on this road). So, no doubt that American knew about the car and about passengers.

Probably an officer from CIA was orderer to kill mr.Calipari. He used a sniper to kill him for sure. But as a smokescreen "unfortunate incident" was arranged. US troops were told about suspicious car, that probably terrorist were in it.
 
#3
I think whatever credibility you had has just gone out the window with that pile of shite KGB.

Editied to clarify it was not aimed at T-P. We seemed to have posted at the same moment and with the same sentiment. :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
#4
Tracy-Paul said:
I think you need to back away from the crack pipe BEFORE trying to type coherently...
Dear Tracy-Paul!

As illiterate Russian I could be foregiven for numerous mistakes and typewriting errors. But, as I see you understand my message pretty well. Above all, it seems to me that you agree, that this scenario is possible. So it can be discussed. There is a lot of professional here. Let's look at their remarks.

Agruments like 'it is impossible because it is impossible' or 'you are fool yourself' are not too original to be answered.
 
#5
I think Tracey is making the point – very eloquently – that you are talking bollox. You initially sounded interesting when you arrived on this site but you clearly have an anti US agenda and twist things to fit your anti American view. However because most on here know a little bit more than what Putin wants us to know we can then look at information, filter it and come to an objective opinion. You on the other hand appear to be a bit dim and are increasingly writing fiction.
 
#6
I've said before that KGBr's slant on 'Logic ' and 'Truth' means that nothing posted by him can be taken with any seriousness. This Rubbish proves my point beyond any doubt.

KGBr, do you actually believe your own posts or are you just posting for comic effect?
 
#7
KGB_resident said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4483949.stm



Ms Sgrena is too naive. She herself is of zero interest for USA secret services. But Nicola Calipari could be very dangerous. Is it strange? Not at all. Mr.Calipari no doubt knew many interesting thing. What is possible scenario?

During a meeting with kidnappers mr.Calipari saw a person who (and he knew it pretty well) was American agent. It is one step from there to prove involvement of Americans in kidnapping of Italian journalist from communist newspaper.

Probably an officer from CIA was orderer to kill mr.Calipari. He used a sniper to kill him for sure. But as a smokescreen "unfortunate incident" was arranged. ]US troops were told about suspicious car, that probably terrorist were in it.
Sergey, put your shiny hat back on. Another crazy conspiracy theorist in our midst. :roll:
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#8
I'd be VERY impressed if the US - or anyone else for that matter - had a sniper with enough skill to shoot someone, in the back of a speeding car (and by most reports it was speeding indeed) at night on an Iraqi road. I think they did bloody well to hit it at all, even with auto fire!

If the Yanks had wanted to kill the Italian chap, they had plenty of other opportunities.

KGB_R has blown it completely, and none of his future spoutings can be taken seriously. Hard luck old bean - after you'd worked so hard as well :twisted:
 
#9
Plant-Pilot said:
I've said before that KGBr's slant on 'Logic ' and 'Truth' means that nothing posted by him can be taken with any seriousness. This Rubbish proves my point beyond any doubt.

KGBr, do you actually believe your own posts or are you just posting for comic effect?
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050307-120131-5769r.htm

Mr. Calipari and another senior SISMI operative concluded the deal for her release on Friday in Abu Dhabi and then flew to Baghdad aboard a secret service Falcon executive jet to collect her, La Stampa said.
At the airport, they met an Italian military liaison officer and U.S. military authorities issued them passes allowing them to travel around Baghdad carrying weapons, the newspaper said citing SISMI sources.
The sources said the Italians explained "the terms of the mission" and "the exact nature of the operation" to U.S. officials at the airport. Sources also said an American officer was instructed to wait at the airport for Mr. Calipari and the freed hostage.
So, as you see Americans were informed about the operation.

Several government ministers joined the driver of the car yesterday in rejecting the U.S. explanation that the Americans opened fire only after the driver ignored signals to slow down as he approached a checkpoint.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=17&u=/ap/20050425/ap_on_re_eu/italy_us_iraq_1

"The fault is apparently the Italians for driving at high speed" according to the Americans, Italian state TV said. But it said the Italian investigators were sticking with the Italian survivors' descriptions that the car was traveling at about 25-30 mph, and that the soldiers fired "immediately."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1522477_2,00.html

As they neared Baghdad airport, Calipari made several telephone calls. The car’s headlights were on, and so was the light inside the car to help Calipari dial the numbers. Suddenly shots rang out. Sgrena says the car quickly stopped, but that the firing continued. “I heard so many shots and when I opened my eyes I saw bullets on the seat next to me. I thought, ‘How can I be alive?’ ” Then she realised Calipari was dead, and that she was bleeding from the shoulder. An American soldier opened one of the car doors, looked inside and said something similar to: “Oh, shit. This one’s dead.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4323209.stm

Doctors said he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.
 
#10
KGB,

Your lack of experience is showing on this.

It doesn't matter what you define as high-speed. If the vehicle doesn't stop at the VCP the guys will shoot - simple. Just because some officer is told to wait at the airport does not mean that the guys manning the VCP know about this particular vehicle.

Why look for conspiracy theories in what looks to be just a classic screw up? They've happened before and they will happen again.
 
#11
OldSnowy said:
I'd be VERY impressed if the US - or anyone else for that matter - had a sniper with enough skill to shoot someone, in the back of a speeding car (and by most reports it was speeding indeed) at night on an Iraqi road. I think they did bloody well to hit it at all, even with auto fire!

If the Yanks had wanted to kill the Italian chap, they had plenty of other opportunities.

KGB_R has blown it completely, and none of his future spoutings can be taken seriously. Hard luck old bean - after you'd worked so hard as well :twisted:
First of all the car was stopped by fire within 700 meters from the airport. So it was not speeding car. Probably place of mr.Calipari in the car was well know to Americans (the car had passed many other checkpoints). Mr.Calopari was killed by single bullet in temple (from right side) not in forehead.

You said that Americans would have plenty of other opportunities. I doubt. They knew pretty well that within few minutes he would be in the plane.

American soldiers claimed that they aimed only at engine of the car (to stop it). Taking into account highest level of professionalism of American military I'm sure that namely that had been done.

As I see you understand me in the wrong way. I placed there this theory (only theory) as a matter for discussion. And I'm ready to change my minde in few seconds. Once I would see serious arguments that prove that it is impossible from technical point of view then I would recognise them as valuable.

Your agruments are very good ones but this discussion is not over, I guess.

Regards!
 
#12
OldSnowy said:
I'd be VERY impressed if the US - or anyone else for that matter - had a sniper with enough skill to shoot someone, in the back of a speeding car
1963 - Dallas. JFK. Very dead. Has someone come out of retirement?? That's a conspiracy theory you might like to start looking at, KGB_resident.

KGB_resident = off his tits :twisted:
 
#13
MikeMcc said:
KGB,

Your lack of experience is showing on this.

It doesn't matter what you define as high-speed. If the vehicle doesn't stop at the VCP the guys will shoot - simple. Just because some officer is told to wait at the airport does not mean that the guys manning the VCP know about this particular vehicle.

Why look for conspiracy theories in what looks to be just a classic screw up? They've happened before and they will happen again.
Dear Mike!

Suppose that a car from British ambassy in Baghdad would on this road to airport. In this situation ALL checkpoints would be informed about it to avoid any incident. I repeat that there was no even one case when a car with diplomats or high-ranked officials would be targetted. The car with Italians was not a usual private car. So information about it was sent to ALL permanent checkpoints. One of them is on entry to the airport. Italians were fired within 700 meters from airport. But why this temporary checkpoint was established? Was it informed about the car? If not then why?
 
#14
what ever you think of the Ruskie, this whole thing stinks of a typical septic 'brush over', its not even a cover up.
 
#15
Did anyone really think there would be a different conclusion?
 
#16
Agent_Smith said:
Sergey, put your shiny hat back on. Another crazy conspiracy theorist in our midst. :roll:
Hi Agent Smith!

Without conspiracy theories our life would be bleak. And my main question there: was it possible from technical point of view or not. As to question is it true or not then we haven't enough information to discuss.
 
#17
Comeon guys, it was dark, they were on the most dangerous road in the region, they see a car speeding at them (open to interpretation) and fire warning shots and yet it doesn't stop. What are they expected to do? Wait until it gets nearer and then check to see if its a legitimate car or an insurgent with 100k's of HE with their name on it?

Also take into consideration that it was a temp road block and as such, some up above may not have given them the message that the eyeties were coming in.

I know it doesnt excuse the death, but i dont think we can blame the grunts.

A_S
 
#18
Agent_Smith said:
Comeon guys, it was dark, they were on the most dangerous road in the region, they see a car speeding at them (open to interpretation) and fire warning shots and yet it doesn't stop. What are they expected to do? Wait until it gets nearer and then check to see if its a legitimate car or an insurgent with 100k's of HE with their name on it?

Also take into consideration that it was a temp road block and as such, some up above may not have given them the message that the eyeties were coming in.

I know it doesnt excuse the death, but i dont think we can blame the grunts.

A_S
This variant is logical and doesn't at least contain self-contradictions. It is possible that due to some sort of disorder temporary check-point was not informed in time about the car. Probably soldiers mentioned it too late to give any signal.

Of course this obvious explanation (it is too obvious to be mentioned in my first post) is more probable than my theory.

After start of the firing car quickly stopped, but the firing continued. But why?
 
#19
KGB_resident said:
MikeMcc said:
KGB,

Your lack of experience is showing on this.

It doesn't matter what you define as high-speed. If the vehicle doesn't stop at the VCP the guys will shoot - simple. Just because some officer is told to wait at the airport does not mean that the guys manning the VCP know about this particular vehicle.

Why look for conspiracy theories in what looks to be just a classic screw up? They've happened before and they will happen again.
Dear Mike!

Suppose that a car from British ambassy in Baghdad would on this road to airport. In this situation ALL checkpoints would be informed about it to avoid any incident. I repeat that there was no even one case when a car with diplomats or high-ranked officials would be targetted. The car with Italians was not a usual private car. So information about it was sent to ALL permanent checkpoints. One of them is on entry to the airport. Italians were fired within 700 meters from airport. But why this temporary checkpoint was established? Was it informed about the car? If not then why?
We managed to screw up the information about who was where, doing what, and that contributed to the deaths of 6 military policemen at the hands of a mob. Why should you think that the Americans are infallible?
 
#20
MikeMcc said:
Why should you think that the Americans are infallible?
Mistakes are natural for each human being. And I myself is not an exception. But in this case I presented a puzzle, test.

Really I regard "my theory" as an absurd. And believed that it is so obvious. Simply because (even if American agent among terrorists exists) there would be enough for Americans to kill him to cover the whole story. Killing of Italian would lead unconditionally to big fuss and it is unclear would his death be helpful (the information could be always transferred). Moreover, probability of killing of mr.Calipari was not 100% and technically it was very difficult.

I like very much this sort of tasks. Sorry if anyone was offended. I didn't mean it.

Once more, my appologies.
 

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