US to withdraw Troops

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Letterwritingman, Aug 16, 2004.

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  1. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    This was also covered in the Independent on Sunday under the headline

    US to pull 70,000 troops out of Germany


    So, how long before the penny drops with MoD then......who currently have a 15 year rolling timeline on our presence in Germany.

    ( if you had told our grandfathers that, 60 years after the end of WWII, we would still have troops in Germany they would have called for the men in white coats...)


    << En garde - les Boches! >>

    Le Chevre
     
  2. This might have the positive effect of causing the 'anti-militarists' to confront the consequences of their politics. For decades, the Germans - including it must be said, Schroeder - have been able to cavort about, dodging national service and expounding chique left-wing ideas, safe in the knowledge that they could do so because thousands of American and British troops were there to protect them from the consequences of such thinking. Certainly, such a move will have serious economic consequences, as the German economy is in freefall. It could be that a strong dose of reality is about to be administered to the people of Germany - at least it may shake them loose of this most bizarre 'Ostologie'.
     
  3. Or, if you were Polish, you might start looking over your shoulder again...... :cry:
     
  4. Ah the Emperor of the Evil is withdrawing his legions. His southern border is wide open and his western most state will soon have gone full spick. His home land is threatened and the Alamo is no more.
    john
     
  5. The strange bit as I see it is the plan to withdrawn 12,500 troops from South Korea. Hold on, weren't the North Koreans still part of the Axis of Evil just a little while ago? Isn't withdrawing troops in such a situation almost like a green light, saying: "Go ahead and invade, we're not interested any more". (Kind of similar to UK defence cuts that led the Argies to think we couldn't/wouldn't defend the Falklands).
     
  6. Mais Oui.

    Then Dear Leader tries it on with the South, then US Cavalree to the rescue, therby Saving the World for Democracy, the Baby Bush gets reelected. obvious really.
     
  7. Where an Earth are they going to base them all? I remember the problems we had during 'Drawdown' where tens of thousands of troops were suddenly transplanted into the UK to inadequet underdeveloped barracks and old RAF bases which required quite a bit of re-working to bring them upto spec.
     
  8. I remember reading about the run-up to this recent announcement some months ago. American forces are being redeployed as opposed to strictly being withdrawn. The redeployment will be to such countries as Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary.... These are places where the U.S. will be welcome.

    Poland recently cancelled an order with the French for several Mirage fighters, after Chirac's suggestion that she, along with other former SovBloc states missed an opportunity to 'shut up' during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. These countries have long memories, and unlike the lotus eaters of Western Europe who would rather do anything than fight (see Yugoslavia in the 90s) they are quite willing to. The Americans have realised that these members of 'New Europe' are more reliable than the selfless cowards of the West, who have been able to hide under the blanket of U.S. protection for 60 years while loudly condemning that very protection.

    I don't imagine that the Poles will have much real cause to be looking over their shoulders at the Germans anytime soon (though they still will continue to do so, if only out of habit). Germany ceased to be a military relevance in 1945. Anyone with any experience of modern Germany will know that her people have no interest in serving in the Bundeswehr and have totally turned against their military tradition (and no, I don't think Germany should be judged by 12 years of Nazi rule, terrible though it was). The last 60 years have seen a total emasculation of Germany society, and much of Western Europe. For example, there is a district of Berlin - Kreuzberg I believe - which is inhabited by several generations of draft dodgers and conscientious objectors. Fight? They wouldn't know how. In any future war I know who I would want with me.

    Personally, I don't blame the Americans for wanting to 'pull-out' of their Western European bases. Why should they pay to defend people who openly loathe them?
     
  9. X-Inf

    X-Inf War Hero Book Reviewer

    Which way?
     
  10. Is NK in a position to throw the first punch and survive? Either they stay coventional and get thrashed with JDAMs or it goes nuclear and they all tan at an accelerated rate. The Chinese might not be to impressed either, its not like the 50's they have standards of living to improve.
     
  11. maybe the germans and the french along with them shouldn;t have been so arrsey?!

    still if that were the case then why is GB reassigning troops from italy? one would have thought they would have stayed there.

    perhaps they could be sent to th ebalkans ready for rapid deployment....

    TJ
     
  12. One obvious question we ought to ask ourselves is....."With the American view that there is no longer a requirement for US troops to be based in Germany due to the much (Labour) vaunted 'Peace Dividend'..what exactly is Britains justification for retaining her bases unless we are indeed to be sold out as part of a European Army?"

    How does this effect us?......better still....how will B-Liar justify our continued presence?
     
  13. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Old-Salt Moderator

    Ignoring the European Army hyperbole: Why are we still in Germany? With the demise of the Cold War there's no strategic reason (with the dubious possible exception of ARRC on political grounds, but more on that in other threads). My understanding is that the only reason that we remain in Germany is that the cost of moving 1 (UK) Armd Div, and associated units back to the UK would be prohibitively expensive. Quite aside from the cost of building the facilities to house the many thousands of personnel, on which real estate would they be located? Increasingly Defence rationalisation - exemplified by the Defence Training Review - is seeking to concentrate assets in centralised sites, closing down and selling off other locations. In other words, the real estate in the UK to which we could potentially be relocated in the future is being sold.

    Surely though, it does make sense to withdraw from Germany, if/when possible?
     
  14. Just Bush's way of saying thanks to the boxheads for not backing him in Iraq...will be a blow to the economy and Schroder and the rest of his leftist will have to figure this one out on their own. Maybe Jackass Chriaq can lean a hand and both the froggies and boxheads can surrender to the declining economy :D