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US to probe BAE over corruption

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Beeb Clicky

Pot calling the kettle black? Bush Dynasty robbing the Iraqi's blind, whilst tying the whole Iraqi industry up in knots to suits themselves!

I wonder how much in the way of political kick-backs the septics give ME countries to accept their products.

I'm disgusted at the sheer hypocrisy of these muppets. If they'd got these deals with the Saudi's, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd not be doing an investigation now.

UK defence firm BAE Systems has said it is the subject of an anti-corruption probe by the US Department of Justice.

According to BAE, the probe will look at its compliance with anti-corruption laws including its business "concerning the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia".

BAE faces allegations that it ran a fund to help it win plane and military equipment orders from Saudi Arabia.

The company, which saw its shares tumble 11% in London, has always argued that it acted lawfully at all times.

BAE's shares fell 47.25 pence to 395p, knocking about £1.6bn off its market value.

The allegations of illegal payments by BAE date back to the 1980s and the £43bn ($85bn) al-Yamamah deal that supplied Saudi Arabia with Tornado jets and other military equipment.

Earlier this month, the BBC and the Guardian newspaper reported that BAE had made payments worth hundreds of millions of pounds over a number of years to Prince Bandar, a leading member of the Saudi royal family.

According to the Guardian, the Department of Justice became interested because BAE used the US banking system to transfer regular payments to accounts controlled by Prince Bandar at Riggs Bank in Washington.

As a result, prosecutors decided that BAE could be investigated under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA).
 
#2
Maybe we should get the SFO to start investigating some US arms companies, to make sure their deals are all legit.

Sorry, I though I was in a world were the powers that be had some sort of moral backbone. Not to worry, I've been awoken to the horrid truth.
 
#3
Incredible.

I'd support this, if they also looked at what their own Defence Industries were doing in the region.

Like that's going to happen.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
bobath said:
Maybe we should get the SFO to start investigating some US arms companies, to make sure their deals are all legit.

Sorry, I though I was in a world were the powers that be had some sort of moral backbone. Not to worry, I've been awoken to the horrid truth.
Truth is, this gobment will support the US in their investigation as much as they can, but they'll block any SFO investigation of our US 'partners'.
 
#5
PartTimePongo said:
Incredible.

I'd support this, if they also looked at what their own Defence Industries were doing in the region.

Like that's going to happen.
38% of BAE's revenue is from the US. They've invested some $10bn in acquiring US second and third tier suppliers over the last 7-8 years, in the same time they've invested...what? in the UK? BAE did sell its stake in Airbus, though, so it could spend the money - in the USA. BAE dropped the absurdly old-fashioned word 'British' from its name some years ago and now considers itself a 'transatlantic' company. It would probably be whiolly US by now if not for HMG's 'golden share'. BAE have made no bones about the fact that they see their future in the US, not UK/Europe.

So when you say the US authiorities should investigate 'their own' defense industry, be aware - to all intents and purposes, THEY ARE!

It amazes me that, despite the forgoing and the decades of supplying late, substandard, overspised kit to HM Armed Forces, whilst investing virtually every penny gouged from the British taxpayer in the USA, that some people on here will actually support BAE.
 
#6
As much as I loathe BAE and their fat brown envelopes, its a bit rich of Uncle to suddenly start getting all moralistic.

There is still well over £10bn of Iraqi oil money missing...misappropriated by the Coalition Provisional Authority ie the Yanks.

Also didnt they use Echelon SIGINT against us in order to win contracts?!
 
#7
You can expect the Saudi Embassador to Washington to be urgently visiting George W and throwing his toys out the pram in the next few days. They can threaten to cancel US contracts just as easily as they can UK ones. The Saudi's don't like this sort of thing being discussed in public and to dig it all up again will not please them.

I wouldn't be surprised if this all ends up in investigative blind alley in the USA just as it did here and then gets quietly buried in a few months.........
 
#8
The bottom line is that it amounts to nothing more than bloodless commercial warfare on the part of the US Defence Industry to neutralise a commercial rival by their lobbying US Congressmen to give legitimacy to what is a commercial takeover of BAE's overseas defence contracts in favour of an ailing US economy.

The difficulty for the Amercans in ventures such as this is that although they are industrially advanced, they lack the experience of commercial deviousness and treachery for which the British are world masters.

The Americans will not succeed unless they are prepared to accept enormous commercial losses.
 
#9
It would be very interesting to see what corporate machinations are going on in the murky background. None of the big US defence contractors, let alone their highly paid Congressional lobbyists are above provoking this as a means of hamstringing BAE's reported intent to jump firmly into the US market and start making acquisitions. As someone once said "follow the money".

You know it is getting deadly serious if the US starts talking about fast track extradition of BAE executives a la Nat West three.
 
#10
It would be very interesting to see what corporate machinations are going on in the murky background. None of the big US defence contractors, let alone their highly paid Congressional lobbyists are above provoking this as a means of hamstringing BAE's reported intent to jump firmly into the US market and start making acquisitions. As someone once said "follow the money".

You know it is getting deadly serious if the US starts talking about fast track extradition of BAE executives a la Nat West three.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
bobath said:
Maybe we should get the SFO to start investigating some US arms companies, to make sure their deals are all legit.

Sorry, I though I was in a world were the powers that be had some sort of moral backbone. Not to worry, I've been awoken to the horrid truth.
I wouldnt bother, the US Fraud investigators take no prisoners and Pte Eye have been predicting just this event, If you trade on a US Stock exchange you can be held liable for crimes committed overseas such as fraud and corruption. I would also like to see Goldsmith and Princess Tony the turd dragged in front of the couts as the SFO are useless!
Crime is crime where ever it is committed. The US will nail their own just as fast!
Watch this space!
Regarding the so called US financial backing of politicians, thats legal there so buying a govt and contracts is legal in a way. Thats why Labour have messed up trying the same thing here. Remember they will be judged by US law in a US court in accordance with an international anti corruption treaty that we have signed yet fail to enforce.
How we can claim to be clean when we allow our own companies to do it is wrong. That money blown on Arabs came from the UK taxpayer indirectly and could have gone on more or better kit. remember that next time you moan about crap guns etc!
 
#13
The current issue of Private Eye has an interesting little story...

Remember Cheriegate and the Bristol flats? It turns out that both flats were leased by Thales. I presume that they were the closest and cheapest flats to Abbey Wood and Thales were blissfully unaware of the connection. :roll:

The embarrassment over this US probe will not be limited to BAE. The Bandar payments (etc) will have been made with the full knowledge of the UK government DTI/MOD.
 
#14
Iolis said:
The bottom line is that it amounts to nothing more than bloodless commercial warfare on the part of the US Defence Industry to neutralise a commercial rival by their lobbying US Congressmen to give legitimacy to what is a commercial takeover of BAE's overseas defence contracts in favour of an ailing US economy.

The difficulty for the Amercans in ventures such as this is that although they are industrially advanced, they lack the experience of commercial deviousness and treachery for which the British are world masters.

The Americans will not succeed unless they are prepared to accept enormous commercial losses.
I suspect they're absolutely pishing themselves at that comment in Paris. So you have any idea how many times the UK aerospace industry has been screwed over by the French in 'collaborative' ventures? Try looking into the Jaguar story and the Puma/Gazelle/Lynx agreements
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
AndyPipkin said:
Iolis said:
The bottom line is that it amounts to nothing more than bloodless commercial warfare on the part of the US Defence Industry to neutralise a commercial rival by their lobbying US Congressmen to give legitimacy to what is a commercial takeover of BAE's overseas defence contracts in favour of an ailing US economy.

The difficulty for the Amercans in ventures such as this is that although they are industrially advanced, they lack the experience of commercial deviousness and treachery for which the British are world masters.

The Americans will not succeed unless they are prepared to accept enormous commercial losses.
I suspect they're absolutely pishing themselves at that comment in Paris. So you have any idea how many times the UK aerospace industry has been screwed over by the French in 'collaborative' ventures? Try looking into the Jaguar story and the Puma/Gazelle/Lynx agreements
No this for once amounts to actual enforcement of a glabal anticorruption treaty. I would like to see it play both ways but if the SFO take 10 years to decide there is no case to answer here or roll over like they did with the Guiness trial what hope is there for punishing US companies. the treaty is clear that if you break any anti corruption laws you are liable for prosecution in your home country. As BAE trade on the US Stock market knowing the US anti corruption laws then they only have themselves to blame. The Govt of both persausions will cop some stick for this too. How Hilary Benn could lend money with anti corruption guarantees whilst all this went on reminds me of the Lenny Henry african dictator sketches!
 
#19
A company spokesman said Tuesday that BAE would not comment on the substance of the formal US investigation.

But he added: [quote]"The company is committed to meeting the highest ethical standards in its dealings with others, and doesn't tolerate unethical behaviour or attempts to improperly influence decisions for customers.
"We continue to be very proud of the support we give to the armed forces globally
.
[/quote]
Having said that, the liquor & guns runner spat a wad of bacca onto the ground.
With a curt nod to his wagon master, loaded with Winchesters and dynamite the mule train then started rolling towards the Indians of the Bad Lands.
 

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