US to boot non-deployable troops

#1
Presumably not all of the 11% non-deployable, are going to have that status for over 12 months, but even so, that's a massive number of people.

Anyone know what the figures are like for the UK?


Service members who have been non-deployable for the past 12 months or more will be separated from the military, based on new Defense Department policies that are under final review....

...Approximately 11 percent, or 235,000, of the 2.1 million personnel serving on active duty, in the reserves or National Guard are currently non-deployable..


Deploy or get out: New Pentagon plan could boot thousands of non-deployable troops
 
#2
As ever, the detail matters.

At least half of those who are non-deployable are because their admin hasn’t caught up (out of date for annual dental check, not passed all their core annual training - MATTs if you like, etc).

A decent wedge are either pregnant women or those who’ve returned to work within the last year after maternity leave.

It turns out that about it is actually a far smaller number (some USN guys would put it at 2-3% of their total manpower total) can’t deploy.

Add in the fact their medical system really doesn’t work very well, and you have individuals who are “LIMDU” (Limited Deployability) for 12+ months whilst waiting for the medical process to diagnose what is wrong with them, let alone being to fix them.

It might be said that this is a smokescreen, avoiding the hard questions about the totality of the US’ personnel system: “up or out”, year groups, rigid career paths, congress mandated control totals for total end-strength and promotion statistics.
 
#3
It might be said that this is a smokescreen, avoiding the hard questions about the totality of the US’ personnel system: “up or out”, year groups, rigid career paths, congress mandated control totals for total end-strength and promotion statistics.
The up or out system is actually being reviewed by congress because of its detrimental effect on retention. Up-or-out rules get new scrutiny from Congress
 
#4
Presumably not all of the 11% non-deployable, are going to have that status for over 12 months, but even so, that's a massive number of people.

Anyone know what the figures are like for the UK?


Deploy or get out: New Pentagon plan could boot thousands of non-deployable troops

I put up the stats about a year ago, combined MND and MLD was about 23% (I cant find the post).
Not having your dental, jabs, audio etc is not the same as MND (Or MLD) as was pointed out when I first posted the stats some MLD are quite minor however in my experiance a considerable amount are effectively non deployable (Unless they will be sleeping in a bed, in a heated building, dont need to do any phys or anything that can be classed as manual work.
 
#5
I had read somewhere that some 19% of the US Army Active duty has still Never deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq.

many of those are in Specialty skills that just dont go anywhere like Drill Sergeants in basic training units locked in for 4-6 years or medical specialties used mostly at Landstuhl, Walter Reed and Fort Sam, or Finance remfs. A Female Sgt acquaintance is now on her 12th year and never set foot outside the USA on duty. Hubby has deployed 4 times to Iraq or Afghanistan during those 12. But because she has had time for NCOES schools she now outranks him even though he has more time in She works in recruiting and retention as a S1 NCO
 
#6
I'm not advocating for the US approach, however, our approach is a joke. There's far too many hangers on that add zero value due to their bad admin, poor fitness, robustness, resilience or med category - sometimes the latter is the result of the former. Sometimes it's legit, but often through playing the system individuals achieve their salary by not doing what they are paid for. Where else would anyone get away with that? Personnel who are long term non deployable in their core role need to be discharged, or at least not be receiving the same level of renumeration as a SP who can fulfil all aspects of their core role.
 
#7
Some limited or non-deployable troops still have utility - technical specialists in some situations (a la Cyberists) are a good example and should be retained if providing effect. Maybe a dynamic approach to paying X - Factor is the solution rather a blanket cull?
 
#8
Some limited or non-deployable troops still have utility - technical specialists in some situations (a la Cyberists) are a good example and should be retained if providing effect. Maybe a dynamic approach to paying X - Factor is the solution rather a blanket cull?
Sit on you arse, while everyone does the duty, PT, tours, exercises and any other shite tasks for 14.5% less cash? We could just employ civvies.
 
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#9
I work with US mil and to be fair there are very few "fatties" deployed where I am. They also heavily draw on the National Guard element, more so than we do with the Reserves. Even the Air Force that are here, apart from their fixation with tache's seem to still pass themselves off as some sort of military element.
 
#10
I'm not advocating for the US approach, however, our approach is a joke. There's far too many hangers on that add zero value due to their bad admin, poor fitness, robustness, resilience or med category - sometimes the latter is the result of the former. Sometimes it's legit, but often through playing the system individuals achieve their salary by not doing what they are paid for. Where else would anyone get away with that? Personnel who are long term non deployable in their core role need to be discharged, or at least not be receiving the same level of renumeration as a SP who can fulfil all aspects of their core role.
I agree with what you say but we also have a very risk-averse medical system who will downgrade otherwise fit personnel who are on medication and who could deploy with few adverse effects.
 
#11
Sometimes it's legit, but often through playing the system individuals achieve their salary by not doing what they are paid for. Where else would anyone get away with that?
The NHS. Plenty of dead wood here, but particularly (in a curious reflection of the situation in the Army!) in Regional and National NHS England HQs.
 
#12
Isn't out of date training and lack of fitness a managerial failing?
Where I work, managers should know when their guys are about to "go out of date" so courses / briefs/ appointments can be booked. This is actually done by a simple Excel spreadsheet, with names down one side, the requirements along the top axis and the expiry dates in the cells. It's even colour coded, amber for about to expire and red for expired. This spreadsheet is printed off and placed on the noticeboard for everyone to see what needs to be done, no excuses.
I'm also a firm believer that a good manager... a SNCO or Junior Officer, should lead by example and be the role model to aspire to. They should have their admin squared away and have a positive attitude towards fitness. They should be encouraging and enabling the guys to get fit. Unfortunately where I work, if you ask for time to go for a run, the fat SNCOs look at you like you've pissed on their kids at Christmas. "How dare you go to the gym or play sport". No wonder we have fitness test failures
 
#16
I had read somewhere that some 19% of the US Army Active duty has still Never deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq.

many of those are in Specialty skills that just dont go anywhere like Drill Sergeants in basic training units locked in for 4-6 years or medical specialties used mostly at Landstuhl, Walter Reed and Fort Sam, or Finance remfs. A Female Sgt acquaintance is now on her 12th year and never set foot outside the USA on duty. Hubby has deployed 4 times to Iraq or Afghanistan during those 12. But because she has had time for NCOES schools she now outranks him even though he has more time in She works in recruiting and retention as a S1 NCO
My buddy in the Air force can tell some stories about his female peers never deploying, but insisting on promotion courses etc. It seemed convenient to get preggers...

He estimates a 1/4 of his unit are missing at any one time.
 
#17
Isn't out of date training and lack of fitness a managerial failing?
Where I work, managers should know when their guys are about to "go out of date" so courses / briefs/ appointments can be booked. This is actually done by a simple Excel spreadsheet, with names down one side, the requirements along the top axis and the expiry dates in the cells. It's even colour coded, amber for about to expire and red for expired. This spreadsheet is printed off and placed on the noticeboard for everyone to see what needs to be done, no excuses.
I'm also a firm believer that a good manager... a SNCO or Junior Officer, should lead by example and be the role model to aspire to. They should have their admin squared away and have a positive attitude towards fitness. They should be encouraging and enabling the guys to get fit. Unfortunately where I work, if you ask for time to go for a run, the fat SNCOs look at you like you've pissed on their kids at Christmas. "How dare you go to the gym or play sport". No wonder we have fitness test failures
There is a report on JPA which gives all that information.

The problem is, not everyone knows/cares how to work JPA, so its down to the already overworked HR Admin to pass the information on, on behalf of people who don't know or cant be bothered to teach themselves how.

And as we all know, no one listens to the HR when it comes to reports.
 
#18
Sure, the cost of a fast-jet pilot's training is somewhere about £1-2 million, why not bin them if he/she can't deploy for a year........? :rolleyes:
 
#20
There is a report on JPA which gives all that information.

The problem is, not everyone knows/cares how to work JPA, so its down to the already overworked HR Admin to pass the information on, on behalf of people who don't know or cant be bothered to teach themselves how.

And as we all know, no one listens to the HR when it comes to reports.
It's called ODR and most officers above the rank of "NIG" are quite capable of using it and finding out who needs to do what when.

Keeping people up to date isn't a HR job. It's a 2ic job and it's easy. Unless those people physically aren't there, which is why units on a very busy rotation often have terrible or just made up MATTs.

With regards to culling the oxygen thieves, it would be a complete waste of time until we actually reach correct manning levels.

A good start would be to have an accountable light duties system where frog mouthed cowardly faced invertebrates can't avoid an exercise because of a sudden bout of sadness.
Last time I ran an exercise I couldn't get med cover from my own unit because the medics all signed each other's bloody sick chocs and every single one of them was too poorly to sit in a bloody ambulance for no longer than 5 hours.
 

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