US "Stop-Loss" (involuntary servitude) Program

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by error_unknown, Jun 3, 2004.

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  1. At every turn it becomes harder to believe news in the US media. As recently as three weeks ago upbeat US headlines touted new recruitment significantly up. Yet here the US govenment has instituted a faux draft resulting in the probable involuntary servitude of thousands desiring to exit the US military.

    It all makes me wonder what kind of inducements (ligaments tantamount to indenture) are being deployed by the US to keep the UK, Poland and others in place in Iraq.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0%2C1280%2C-4160084%2C00.html
    And Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5323674
     
  2. Moderators

    Not wishing to stop the free exchange of information, but would this be better placed in the International HQ? Just asking.
     
  3. So how long before old GB trys for conscription :?:
     
  4. See your point CH , but I'll let this one run, on the grounds of "Heute USA, Morgen die Welt" as Dui-Lai notes 8O

    The stop-loss initative by Rumsfeld is worth looking at , as this country recently, has a history of following Spam initatives . "Supreme Court" anyone?
     
  5. I suspect that similar powers already exist in the UK but only if the government declares a state of emergency, war or whatever the exact phrase is. Queens Order maybe ?

    Anyway, to do it in peacetime you'll need to change everyone's terms of service, which has to be by agreement or when they next have to sign on for another period.

    I would have thought that if we had something in there already it would have been used by now - although they could always let you go and then call you up from the Regular Reserve.
     
  6. A similar, though not as restrictive practice has happened for years. If your unit is warned for operations you can't PVR. (I stand to be corrected by those with more experience on this though).
     
  7. You can be extended beyond your exit date if the Defence Council deem it necessary - I think... Believe your terminal leave and resettlement are held over until you return. Has anyone been hit with this one?
     
  8. Here a thought for you.

    The 12 month notice period is about to be brought into line with Officers engagements to a period of 7 months. Notice has been given that soldiers signing off are not to be deployed on Ops or Ex as this will result in a time conflict with the resettlement requirements.

    How many people, when they here of this, are going to sign off as soon as they are warned off for a tour?
     
  9. I served in the US Navy both enlisted and officer, unrestricted line. While enlisted I entered into a voluntary servitude contract that specified an explicit period of time. My ID card (ironically all active duty military cards are green) contained an expiration date consistant with my contract. Notwithstanding a bonified "emergency" I would have been more than just miffed if I was extended as is implied in these orders. When I was subsequently commissioned I traded in my old green card for a new one with a new rank. In place of an expiration date were the words, "Serves at the pleasure of the President." That always bothered me a little because I knew what it meant!!! 8O

    There will be at least a few enlisteds scrounging up solistiors for this round. :lol:
     
  10. They are already quietly reactivating the local draft boards, however, because of 'Nam even the idea of a draft is chilling in America. It is said the uniformed services are happy not to have conscripts; anyone over there not know why? Check the Mil.chod boards and view endless rants against the draft.

    Answer, as soon as the cowardly cnut (not LNV - :lol: ) is re-elected. 8O
     
  11. Under my reserve forces call up instructions it states that I can only be called up if there is a 'Grave national emergency'.
    I wonder if they will try to get us 'time served' people mobilised without declaring such an emergency?
     
  12. i already posted this in the TA section, i will repeat my point here.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    as in america they are already going down the list of ex service men and reservists

    in the UK i wonder how far down the list they wil be going in order to avoid conscription or declaring a National Emercency in order to enable conscription.

    so lets see :
    1)Regulars
    2)TA
    3)Reservist
    4)Ex_sevicemen with call up liability
    5)Cadet Training Team members
    6)then Adult ACF Officers (type B converted to A)
    after that
    anybody else then that would be conscription
    _________________

    does anybody else have their view on the this ?
     
  13. Interesting stuff.

    IMHO conscription would require a total mind shift in regarding the way our Armed Forces are established. In the current climate, there is simply no way that conscription could be floated past the electorate. The conspiracy theorists can debate this all they like - there is no way.

    To address an earlier point - Queen's Orders are broadly similar to the US system of DEFCON/similar. The Queen has no say in the democratic process of this country (apart from informal approval of various pieces of legislation) - the decision to initiate conscription is a political process.

    The rules already exist (in principle) for extending personnel in service, but the individual concerned needs to be almost indispensable and of clear importance to the UK national effort. A period of over-stretch does not qualify. Again, conspiracy theorists - debate all you like - and remember I have seen the effects of using 'poorly trained TA soldiers' (the subject of another thread) and 'backfilling' from other units - there was no effect in tactical terms.

    Yes - we have a problem with 'stretch' in the Army, and tour intervals are ridiculous for some units. Yes - people are getting fed up with it - but the effects are yet to be quantified at any rational level.

    We are a professional Army, based on voluntary service. Inclusion of conscription would fundamentally alter the whole character and ethos of the Armed Forces (about the only worthwhile export UK PLC possess).

    I say again - it will never happen - the situation simply isn't that bad - we will always find a way. Haven't we done so for years?? :D

    PS In addendum, I can remember being chuffed to bits to go to Bosnia in 1995, as it was my first tour for over 2 years (!) I now find myself in a Staff job for another 12 months, following a period which has seen 5 tours in just over 3 years! On my last stint in Iraq, the Bde had personnel from a Scots Battalion who were on PD at Balmoral. The Queen had to be asked if it was ok if they went to Iraq!! :D

    We were informed that there is nothing left in the barrel if the PD Battalions are being stripped - this was Oct 2003!

    Apologies for the rambling post :D
     
  14. Conscription, i mean have you seen the people who are getting through training now anyway , how low would the bar have to be lowered to get the averege joe through basic!!!!
    plus you'd have lawyers crawling out of your arrse!!!!
    "ooooooh me human rights are being violated" :roll:
     
  15. If things get that desperate the Human Right legislation will have been given the boot. There is a get-out clause allowing to be ditched in times of 'National Emergency'