Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by Jailorinummqasr, Mar 8, 2005.

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  1. From the NY Times:

    I wonder whether one of the US contributors could outline the ROE for a US solider in Iarq; so that we can get a better understanding of the how and why there are so many inicidents like the ones in article and the general feeling unease that some of us Brits have about the US ROE after looking down the wrong end of US Fire Power.
  2. U.S. rules of engagement

    1. get some muthafucka.

    2. reload.

    3. get some more muthafucka.
  3. :lol: :lol: :lol:

    seriously can anyone get the DS answer?
  4. Sorry Jailor the ROE is not for public consumption.
  5. No, sadly all the public get is incoming :p
  6. There is an old saying in the US Army there only two types of people in a war zone - the quick and the dead.

    Discussing the US ROE on this forum would be a waste of time. Those of you who want to bash the US military will do so. Frankly I am proud of the men and women who serve. They are doing a great job under very difficult conditions.
  7. Here here!
  8. Yeah, well said tomahawk. Except that, as the article quoted at the top of the thread says, the job is made more difficult by the approach taken to such a simple matter as setting up the checkpoints properly. I am assuming that the writer has some experience to base this on - I haven't been out there myself, several mates still serving say that many of the US checkpoints are a bit ill thought out.

    Easy enough to do it well - the drivers should have some better warning that they are approaching a VCP than a burst of 5.56 through the windscreen.

    hmmmmmm, say half the transatlantic cousins, good point. Perhaps we should go back to 7.62........
  9. The car bomb or IVB makes operating checkpoints very very dangerous and young soldiers have to make instant decisions.
  10. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    A lot of the UK experience is based on Ulster where, whatever you may think of the opposition there (on all sides) none were stupid enough to be suicidal. Daft, yes sometimes, but not suicidal.

    Iraq is different. Instant decisions are needed, and a car coming towards a checkpoint and not stopping will get blown away. I'm pretty sure that the locals understand this - it's been happening there for long enough.

    At least if they are blowing themselves up there, they aren't doing it in London or New York, which is I suppose the whole point.
  11. It's also not as if these check points are just "popping" up. We had a few engagements with unarmed vehicles in Al Naz. We had the checkpoint up for days, and manned it in a very visible manner. We still had vehicles approach us at a very high rate of speed. When that happens, the NCO running the CP has to make a decision. (Many on the site take issue with the lack of NCO leadership in the US Military. All I can comment on is the Marine Corps, and our NCOs are good to go) Does he order warning shots and have the possible suicide bomber get closer to his men, or does he engage the vehicle. It is horrible that innocent civilians are getting killed. The Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen over there do not want innocent civilians to die, but they want to have their fellow Marines, etc to go home ALIVE even more.
  12. Weapons visible to approaching vehicle from a distance, barrier clearly marked
    Warning shot
    Shoot vehicle- tires, engine, driver, occupants, in that order
    Protect your assets
    Warning zones, traffic cones, lights etc, etc, nothing gets closer than 50 meters
    Protect your assets

    This is all time dependent, if time is crunched, then you must react in a hurry.

    Not ROE, just practical thoughts.
  13. T6,

    Apologies for not caveating my enquiry, I guessed the ROE may have been classified. [I was not encouraging them to be leaked] It may seem like I to bash Septic's. The bottom line is in complex discussion, it is difficult for us Brits to understand US actions without reference to ROE.

    The key question for me is irrespective of the rights/wrongs of the IT or BUL incidents or the other incident in this article, lack of clarity on ROEs make it hard to asses US actions fairly. Therefore we have assume the UK and US ROEs are the same or similar. Having watched the run into Baghdad where every moving vehicle received rounds, in the context of the top brass and poli's were telling the Iraqi people to carry on with their normal business. Contradictory information probably lead to the lose of civilian life.
  14. In the case of the Sgrena it was the lack of communication that led to her car being shotup. The facts of the Bulgarian case are not known. A US installation is said to be within 150 yards or so of the incident. Polish troops were also operating in the area. The US troops may have though they were trying to support the Bulagarians. Or he got hit by a richochet. No one is certain right now.
  15. I do know that Rule Numbah One is self protection. No other ROE has a higher precedence. If the Soldier thinks he/she is in grave danger, they are required to protect themselves and their comrades.

    We learned this the hard way in Mogadishu. The ROE was so screwed up that at one point the Marines/Soldiers on the ground were expected to take a bullet so as to minimize 'upsetting' the Wallys.

    I damn-near sh*t a brick when I heard that pronouncement. I immediately told my troops to ignore the directive and stay alive.