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US Ranger War Criminal?

#1
See posted link.:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16086801/

I have many doubts about this Rangers claims, being that he is a criminal and being charged with a bank robbery. :roll:

I also think his claims, have a lot more to do with becoming a politicial based charge, so that he can avoid being sent back to the US, as Canada will not extradite people charged with polictial based crimes, etc.
 
#2
An Army Ranger accused of holding up a Tacoma bank plans to use the notoriety of his case to reveal what he characterizes as systematic war crimes -- rapes, homicides and political assassinations -- committed by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Spc. Elliott Sommer is allegedly part of a four-member Ranger crew from Fort Lewis involved in the armed robbery Aug. 7 of a Bank of America branch, court documents show.
Totally agree Trip. This dude is only taking advantage of the special place the military holds in the American heart. You do not need a war to teach you right from wrong.
 
#3
Hmmm. While I have no doubt that there are some "shady" operations by the task force in question, some of these allegations are quite outlandish.
 
#4
Sommer recalled one instance in which he helped a CIA officer and a Delta Force sergeant load two 105 mm howitzer shells into a vehicle in Baghdad's Green Zone. He learned later that they detonated the shells, killing four men -- one of whom was a radical Islamic politician who was the front-runner for elective office.
Sounds very familiar to me, only it's usually the "other" side that does it. If true, it would be very disturbing indeed. American I.E.Ds? Whatever happened to calling in airstrikes?
 
#5
Actually, I like the idea of killing high profile terrorist up close and personal. I would hope that members of this Task Force are allowed to use the means necessary, to kill such targets. I have no qulams with such activity at all. This the very basic concept of having such a unit as Delta/CAG or SAS to perform such duties.
 
#6
Ok, I don't know if this guy is a Ranger or not. Even assuming he is and the "alleged" robbery in Tacoma was an action to draw attention to, ahem, "issues" in Iraq, might there not have been simpler methods?

Say, conduct a robbery in, oh, Burnaby, BC, Canada, where US extradition would be a moot point? Or, just come to Canada and "spill your guts" about any atrocities?

Besides, we have a Conservative government right now. Expect this lad back via Express Post.
 
#7
wotan said:
Ok, I don't know if this guy is a Ranger or not. Even assuming he is and the "alleged" robbery in Tacoma was an action to draw attention to, ahem, "issues" in Iraq, might there not have been simpler methods?

Say, conduct a robbery in, oh, Burnaby, BC, Canada, where US extradition would be a moot point? Or, just come to Canada and "spill your guts" about any atrocities?

Besides, we have a Conservative government right now. Expect this lad back via Express Post.
There is no doubt that he was a Ranger from the 2nd Ranger, BN, 75th Ranger Regiment stationed at Ft. Lewis, WA along with the other Rangers from the same unit who are charged with this bank robbery.

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour.../vortex/display?slug=rangers11m&date=20060811

As for sending him back, apparently if he manages to convince the Canadians that his motive was to get to Canada and confess, etc,. and also convince the Canadians it was a polictical motivated charge, there is a law in Canada that prohibits his return, to a place where he is charged with a polictial based crime, etc.
 
#8
Trip_Wire said:
Actually, I like the idea of killing high profile terrorist up close and personal. I would hope that members of this Task Force are allowed to use the means necessary, to kill such targets. I have no qulams with such activity at all. This the very basic concept of having such a unit as Delta/CAG or SAS to perform such duties.
As much as I like you Trip,

what would you say about the "other" side using the same logic as yours i.e killing 'high profile targets up close and personal?' which is anything and everything that smells "christian?"

It is rather hard to have it both ways in this brutal world we live in. I am sure somebody somewhere is as convinced in his beliefs (if not more) as much as you are of yours.

I hope I am not breaking the terms of the ceasefire. Long live common sense!!!!
 
#9
Devil_Dog:

Did you happen to read what I said? I'll quote. "killing high profile terrorist[hr] up close and personal"

The fact is it is being done on both sides already. Please tell, me that you are not naive enough to think for a NY minute, that we wouldn't kill Osama, anyway we could accomplish it anytime we had the chance?

If we did would this bother you? Alligator tears for Osama? :roll:
 
#10
Trip_Wire said:
Devil_Dog:

Did you happen to read what I said? I'll quote. "killing high profile terrorist[hr] up close and personal"

The fact is it is being done on both sides already. Please tell, me that you are not naive enough to think for a NY minute, that we wouldn't kill Osama, anyway we could accomplish it anytime we had the chance?

If we did would this bother you? Alligator tears for Osama? :roll:
I love you dearly Trip but there you go again insinuating and deliberately misinterpreting me.

Of course I would pull the trigger on Bin Laden (who wouldn't?) but to say that I would condone not killing him is a travesty on your part.

Is it just me or are we destined never to agree on anything even when we agree?
 
#11
Trip_Wire said:
See posted link.:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16086801/

I have many doubts about this Rangers claims, being that he is a criminal and being charged with a bank robbery. :roll:

I also think his claims, have a lot more to do with becoming a politicial based charge, so that he can avoid being sent back to the US, as Canada will not extradite people charged with polictial based crimes, etc.
Trip, given that this is in your backyard, I suspect that you are closer to the loop than most of the rest of us. :donut:

Strangely I also agree with your "up close and personal" statement, although not perhaps the way you say it. Stopping a problem, when it's not being a problem is very Sun Tzu. :worship:

Of course, if certain elements are abusing their position it needs to be stamped on hard. IMHO if there is any truth to these allegations, it should be dealt with firmly, but discretely.

PB
 
#13
OK - so now he has he notoriety he claims he was seeking. What is to stop him making his earth shattering revelations (if such they be) from the 'safety' of Canada. Access to media is as easy there as in USA.
 
#14
what would you say about the "other" side using the same logic as yours i.e killing 'high profile targets up close and personal?' which is anything and everything that smells "christian?"

It is rather hard to have it both ways in this brutal world we live in. I am sure somebody somewhere is as convinced in his beliefs (if not more) as much as you are of yours.
We can't stop the war because terrorists have children.
 
#15
GhostRecon said:
what would you say about the "other" side using the same logic as yours i.e killing 'high profile targets up close and personal?' which is anything and everything that smells "christian?"

It is rather hard to have it both ways in this brutal world we live in. I am sure somebody somewhere is as convinced in his beliefs (if not more) as much as you are of yours.
We can't stop the war because terrorists have children.
It should be the aim to deal with terrorists when apart from their children or, when this is not safely feasible, to deal with the terrorist in such a manner that we do not also kill anyone within x feet of him. We hear of highly trained security forces but often their actions come across as little different from savages. And, yes, I know it ain't easy but any callous action on our part only causes more heads on the Hydra.
 
#16
I'm sure glad that we didn't have all these qualms about killing the enemy in WW II, or we would all be speaking German and/or Japanese. Like Gen. Sherman said "War is Hell."

The fact is, that if you are an infidel you are a target and the enemy has vowed to wipe your kind of the face of the earth. You had a taste of it with the subway bombings and we had the twin towers and a few others to demonstrate their desire and ability to do just that! They are plotting and planning more of such things this very minute. Think they will not succeed? Think again. They will strike in both our countries. Think they will not get weapons of mass destruction? Think again! They will get them and use them. At the very least 'dirty bombs.'

I say kill them anytime you get the chance any way you can, as they will do the same to you. No quarter no mercy! This is a war to the death with a enemy that has no rules.

How many times do you have to see them cut off an innocent heads, kill and torture POWs, kill women and children, etc.?
 
#17
Yaaaaawwwwn!

I know... let's do a bank robbery as a promotional stunt! Does he think we're stupid? He did a robbery, knows he got caught... and now has to go to bum-stretch-heaven.... to do... of course... a stretch.
 
#18
Trip_Wire said:
I'm sure glad that we didn't have all these qualms about killing the enemy in WW II, or we would all be speaking German and/or Japanese. Like Gen. Sherman said "War is Hell."
Hiroshima, Nagasaki? Not too many qualms there were there.
However, the WWII scenario was generally a fixed line of us facing a fixed line of them. The civilians had mostly got offside as refugees. 'Kill em all and let God sort it out' didn't work in Vietnam. The civilised world will regard any killing of non-combatents as unnecessary, Whilst this attitude may not take account of the realities of urban warfare, their opinions do matter. Hitler had this attitude of wholesale slaughter - look where it got him. I don't know your background & realise you may have done your bit in the sh*t but I wonder how much kill em all you get up to in WA? Up to your knees in blood now and again may change your attitude - especially where that blood is from comrades killed in revenge attacks.
 
#20
It should be the aim to deal with terrorists when apart from their children or, when this is not safely feasible, to deal with the terrorist in such a manner that we do not also kill anyone within x feet of him. We hear of highly trained security forces but often their actions come across as little different from savages. And, yes, I know it ain't easy but any callous action on our part only causes more heads on the Hydra.
Your not gonna win over people like that regardless of what you do. Some terrorist drives a truck full of explosives into a crowd of civilians and America still gets blamed for it. Koffi Annan is right that life was better living under a dictatorship but what he forgot to mention that it was only good if you went along with the dictator if you opposed him it wasn't so fun. War is not nice
 

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