US proposes Patriots to Japan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060824/ap_on_re_as/japan_us_defense

[irony]As I remember almost all Hezbollah's missiles were intercepted by 'Patriots'. No doubt that Japan would be able to intercept all N.Korean missiles as well.[/irony]

 

They didn't seem to work all that well in GW1, and it seems like a fair amount of the Hezbollah rockets got through the patriot shield this time around...

 

The Patriots used in GW1 were early models. It's been considerably upgraded over the last 15 years, you know. As for intercepting Katyusha type rockets, Patriot was never designed to do that. It can and does intercept exoatmospheric ballistic missiles of the types used by North Korea.

Wonder if Sergey would be so quick to slag off the utterly unproven and probably crap S-300 'Granit' system, also known as the 'Patriotski'.

 

Hi Andy!

Indeed, so called 'Katyusha' missiles are rather heavy mortar shells. It would be a hard task to intercept them. However some Hezbollah's missiles were of different types. Those that hit Haifa and other more distant targets were usual short-range missiles. But I'm unaware about even one report that even one such a missile was intercepted or there was an attepmt to intercept it.

So while capabilities of S-300 system are indeed unproven on a battlefield, the capabilities of 'Patriot' were effectively shown.

 

The IDF never attempted to intercept Hizbollah rockets with Patriot because Patriot was never designed to intercept such rockets. Patriot did, though, hot everything it was aimed at in OIF. It's a combat proven system and widely sold. It will be effective against most NK ballistic missiles, although the larger ones will require SM3/THAAD or similar.

 

Andy, you puzzled me.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/

Some (not all) Hezbollah's missiles were exactly tactical ballistic missiles. Those that hit Haifa, Afula and other more distant places could be (in theory) be intercepted. But it hasn't happened. How would you explain it?

 

You would have to ask the IDF that, Sergey. Maybe they didn't waste an expensive PAC3 missile on a rocket that was just going to land in the desert?

Slag off Patriot as much as you want, it's a combat proven system and has been widely exported.

 

Still, they're useful things if you want to shoot down yours or your ally's aircraft, which we all need from time to time.

 

Mr.Smith, it appears that you are right about GW1

http://www.cdi.org/issues/bmd/Patriot.html

http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=17314

So billions of $$ were spent on missiles that were too expensive to use them in the case of a war.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/20/world/main1821335.shtml

 

Interesting claim: I was there when the battery in 'full auto' mode took out an incoming scud, and then proceeded to empty its tubes taking out all the bits of scud the radar was tracking. So the intercept rate was certainly not 'zero', and my ears still ring from time to time to prove it...

Having said which, I'm sure that the S300 would be a good piece of kit for the purpose as well... The more interesting question is whether the Israelis bothered/chose to use their Patriots or not... Without being funny, it might just be the issue of having lots of bits of many missiles falling all over Israel, instead of one point of impact?

 

The answer to katyusha type rockets would appear to be this:

http://www.defense-update.com/directory/THEL.htm

rather than firing highly expensive PAC3s against them. As I've repeatedly said, and Sergey has repeatedly ignored, Patriot etc are designed for high-altituted, long range ballistic missiles, not the short, tactical range ubnguided rockets Hizbollah have been using. I'm not sure (beyond his usual anti-American rant) what point Sergey is trying to prove.

 

If you need to intercept short range rockets, mortar rounds or artillery shells, lasers may be the way ahead.

Mobile / Tactical High Energy Laser
(M-THEL) Technology Demonstration Program
Developer: Northrop Grumman Corp.
http://www.defense-update.com/directory/THEL.htm

 

Andy! I fear your are not quite right.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/specs.html

24 km = 80000 ft. It is high enogh for any plane but as for missiles it is not very imressive altitude.

As for Mobile / Tactical High Energy Laser then

http://www.defense-update.com/directory/THEL.htm

Shelved because experts realised that the system is unworkable. And new 'system' by Nortrop Grumman is no more than an attempt to make profits.

 

Sergey, by 'tacticaql' ballistic missiles they meant something like a Scud (which Patriot has intercepted many times), not Katyusha. M-THEL can be made to work, it's just a matter of time and money.

 

Andy!

As for M-THEL then let's wait. Probably the Lebanese war is not the last of this sort. So we would see results.

http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=17314

Hezbollah used Fajr-3 and Fajr-5 against Haifa and as far south as Hadera in central Israel. Maybe Patriot is useless against ZelZal too? In this case Patriont is no more that medium range anti-aircraft system with possibility to hit occasionally some missiles.