US Marines Response to PC ROEs

Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by Trip_Wire, Mar 15, 2007.

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  1. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    In response to the news blurb about the Marine who
    put two rounds in a wounded insurgent's head in
    Fallujah, here's a response from a Marine:

    ----------------------------
    It's a safety issue pure and simple. After
    assaulting through a target, we put a security round
    in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no
    paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up
    "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe,
    falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick
    around on the target. You clear the space, dump
    the chumps, and moveon.org.

    Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists?
    Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense
    budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse
    for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle
    dressing on a terrorist. Its much cheaper to just
    spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

    By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off
    civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are
    carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is
    another reason why these idiots are known as
    "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the
    world's journalists have forgotten that fact.

    Let me be very clear about this issue. I have
    looked around the web, and many people get this
    concept, but there are some stragglers. Here is your
    situation Marine: You just took fire from unlawful
    combatants(no uniform - breaking every Geneva
    Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious
    building attem pting to use the sanctuary status of
    their position as protection. But you're in
    Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that
    they're not playing that game this time. That was
    Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose
    down the terrorists with small arms, launch some
    AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the
    building and things quiet down. So you run over
    there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and
    pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide
    martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots,
    and they think taking some Marines with them would
    be really cool. So you can either risk your life
    and your fire team's lives by having them cover you
    while you bend down and search a guy that you think
    is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of
    the time these are the guys with the grenade or vest
    made of explosives.


    Also, you don't know who or what is in the next
    room. You're already speaking English to the rest of
    your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist
    know you are there and you are his enemy. You are
    speaking loud because your hearing is poor from
    shooting people for several days. So you know that
    there are many other rooms to enter, and that if
    anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that
    Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds
    later), you still have this terrorist (that was just
    shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What
    do you do? You double tap his head, and you go to
    the next room, that's what!!!

    What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law
    of Land Warfare stuff?


    What about it. Without even addressing the issues
    at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather
    be judged by 12 than carried by 6."


    Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a
    fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is
    reinforced by experience on a minute by minute
    basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful
    combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on
    his part. Third, tactically you are in no position
    to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to
    search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist
    indicates that he is up to no good. No good in
    Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no
    good and the high end of no good are fundamentally
    the same . Marines end up getting hurt or die. So
    there is no compelling reason for you to do anything
    but double tap this idiot and get on with the
    mission.

    If you are a veteran, then everything I have just
    written is self evident. If you are not a veteran,
    then at least try to put yourself in the situation.
    Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there
    is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right the hell
    NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is
    really, really not easy. If you have never lived in
    NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big
    roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole
    about putting Marines in jail for "War Crimes."
     
  2. Fair enough
     
  3. yes, that is part of the Geneva Conventions, that we signed up to.

    its not what they do, its what we do that is judged, we signed up to the Geneva Conventions, they didnt.

    They didnt take fire, the building had a just been cleared by another squad, they walked past each other in the doorway, the enemy combatants didnt break any of the Geneva Conventions, because they hadnt signed up to them.

    Thing is, we, our nations have signed up to these Laws of Conflict, the other side havent, they cant therefore be judged on their actions, we however, can be. What the Marine did was an act of bravado for the camera team and it was wrong, regardless of your feelings for the enemy, it was an illegal execution. Footage like that causes the insurgents to 'call for revenge' and more of our troops are killed or maimed because of it, just as they did when photos of the prisoner abuses appeared all over our TVs and papers.

    We are supposed to be above such things, arent we after all, the 'civilised' ones?

    Am now standing by for the typical US response of questioning whether I have ever served or been to war ala Mil.Com standard reply. The answer to both being yes and still am.
     
  4. Whilst I disagree with analysing a troop's actions purely on the basis of calm hindsight, and have little issue with the incident that is referenced to, I do have some issue with some of the comments in the rant above. I, for one, certainly sent my medic to check out someone I had just had shot. (Once it was safe, of course). The other issue is that just because the other guy isn't following the rules, I don't think that justifies my wholesale disregard for them.

    NTM
     
  5. It's just another anonymous email that gets circulated nonstop. Most of them are the product of some fevered mind that has "had it up to here with the Librull Left" or some garbage. Look at the damn thing, it's obviously written, not to confront ones enemies with, but to be smug and self congratulatory.
     
  6. Have a seat.
     
  7. thank you, thats very kind of you
     
  8. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    Filbert Fox:

    Firstly, lets get one thing straight! Trip_Wire didn't 'say' any of the stuff you quote. Got it? The article was posted for reviews and comments both Pro and Con. Just because I post such an article, doesn't mean that I agree with the article in it's entirety.

    As a side note, the same thing happened in WWII in the Pacific. The Marines learned the hard way, that Japenese soldiers, were not inclined to surrender and tricked many Marines into exposing themselves and being killed by wounded by 'surrendering' Jap soldiers. Very few Japanese prisoners were taken due to this and their fanaticism.

    In this war we have Muslim fanatics, fighting a 'Jihad,' who want to martyr themselves as well as take some 'infidels' with them and collect their Virgins, etc. How do you as a Medic, treat some dude with an explosive belt or grenade ready to blow you up?

    In this case; however, some of the things he said and based on what some wounded insurgents have done, in the past in that AO, I can understand his feelings and approach to things.

    Secondly, This 'rant' as you refer to it as was a 'quote' from an unidentified US Marine. I didn't write it, or say it! He's entitled to his opinions.

    To sum it up, he as a Marine. that fought in that particular battle is trying to express his views, on how he thinks it should be fought. I'm sure the USMC hasn't adopted his ROEs as SOP, nor will they ever.

    I think he has the right to express his feelings, on the battle he fought. He was there doing it and knows a lot more about what was needed, at that time, then people like you and I, sitting at our computer desks, second guessing what he did or says. IMHO He does make a few excellent points for the type of combat he was engaged in.
     
  9. In all fairness, I believe I was the one who called it a rant, and I in no way thought it reflected your own personal opinions.

    (Note that a rant is not necessarily something which is bad, it's just a monologue to let off steam)

    NTM
     
  10. as an ex bootie, your point is?
     
  11. Once again TW posts some tripe without comment and takes offence to being associated with the content, messge, or inferences of said tripe.


    I get it now it is Tripe_Wire and not Trip_Wire...shame on me.
     
  12. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    Do you speak english? Do you even know what the word tripe stands for? Or do you have a Yorkshire dialect? Tripe, IMHO isn't a word that most people would use, to try to say what you wanted to say. :cyclopsani:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe

    Perhaps, you should spend more time sniffing your balls and less time writing idiotic statements like you have written here. What has your comments here got to do with the subject matter? If you read what I said to the MOD that posted, you will see that I did express my opinions on the article, etc. Given your 'VAST' military experience and 'background?' why don't you address the article, maybe we'll learn something from your vast knowledge and experience. :cyclopsani:

    You really are a piece of work you twit! You due one hitch in the Army, in a peacetime Korea, (No combat experience.) as a cannon cocker, in an Arty unit and reach the pitiful rank SP-4 and got out or was kicked out of the Army. :thumbdown:

    Now you are an 'expert,' (?) on all military matters? You need to quit smoking that stuff! :brilsmurf:
     
  13. Soldier_Why

    Soldier_Why LE Moderator

  14. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    I really wonder about that SW. Here is a quote from my reference website.:

    "Tripe is also a term synonymous with rubbish, in the sense of something of little value, or nonsense, and is often used in the Yorkshire dialect."

    Given that 'crotch' or whatever is name is, claims to be American, I didn't think he had a Yorkshire dialect. In any case, my remarks were addressed to him and even without the 'Tripe' issue he's still a loser and a twit. :numberone:
     
  15. You top him if he tries to detonate it. However, this does not give you carte blanche to execute the wounded on the assumption that all of them will try to kill you.