US manufacturing hits 26-year low

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7706905.stm

US manufacturing activity fell in October to its lowest level for 26 years, according to a new report from the Institute for Supply Management.

The report cited "significant demand destruction", for the third consecutive month in which the sector contracted.

The figures were far worse than the market had expected and pushed the Dow Jones index briefly into negative territory in early morning trading.
...
October's score is the lowest-recorded since September 1982.
Maybe it is time to support American industry? Support our American friends - buy American.
 
#2
What's manufacturing like in Russia, Sergey? Is it in the same poo as the rest of your economy?
 
#3
From what I understand Russia makes most of its foreign reserves from Oil and gas.

if we lose dependency on Russian Oil and Gas then that will go down.
 
#4
Yep really bad news the world is heading into a severe global recession were looking at 15% unemployment and 15$ a barrel oil next year.
 
#5
American manufacturing (like UK) would have been in decline anyway. Obviously far cheaper to have factories in third world countries, whilst we all get filthy rich trading derivatives..........
 
#6
Siddar said:
Yep really bad news the world is heading into a severe global recession were looking at 15% unemployment and 15$ a barrel oil next year.
That happens we can expect Russia to barge its way to the front of the IMF bail-out line, and Spetsnaz on the streets of Moscow in order to suppress the angry crowds who want their wages/pensions etc.

Economic Darkness Descends on Putin's Russia

The hydrocarbon windfall that fueled the Russian state's recent revival appears unable to offer a solution to the crisis. Russian foreign-currency reserves that stood at almost $600 billion last August have shrunk to $485 billion as the state has been forced to spend to bail out state-run banks and prevent abrupt devaluation of the weakening ruble. There is no telling if the policy has worked, though, and there's worse to come: major state-run corporations such as Gazprom and Rosneft, as well as Russia's regional governments, have accumulated debts amounting to some $448 billion that can't be paid without the help of the federal government. Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin has just called for another $100 billion to bail out major companies, which can expect to jump ahead of the regions in the line for government assistance. If the federal government declines to bail out the regions, however, the consequence could be the "soft" disintegration of the Russian Federation, says one savvy business executive — the regions could begin to withhold some of the taxes they collect on Moscow's behalf. Already, some regions in Russia's far east are more integrated into the Chinese economy than the Russian one.

In the Siberian city of Barnaul, pensioners, angry with rapidly declining living standards and rapidly rising bills, last week stormed and occupied the Regional Administration Building, demanding more money. Russian sociologists are expecting a massive wave of similar protests and strikes to roll throughout Russia, not unlike those that shook the country in the 1990s, with angry coal miners blocking railways in Siberia and unpaid workers striking in the cities. Now some enterprises are again failing to pay their workers, while others simply go out of business. But disruptive protests would contravene a new labor code passed under Putin in 2001, which sets tight restrictions on the forms of protest available to trade unions. But a Russian state that narrows the options of legal protest available to its people during a major national crisis may be courting serious trouble — it's certainly a principle that Czar Nicholas II failed to understand.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1856037,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-world
 
#7
KGB_resident said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7706905.stm

US manufacturing activity fell in October to its lowest level for 26 years, according to a new report from the Institute for Supply Management.

The report cited "significant demand destruction", for the third consecutive month in which the sector contracted.

The figures were far worse than the market had expected and pushed the Dow Jones index briefly into negative territory in early morning trading.
...
October's score is the lowest-recorded since September 1982.
Maybe it is time to support American industry? Support our American friends - buy American.
I would do Sergey, but Russian ammo is cheaper. :wink:
 
#8
An anti-American post by Sergei?

I'm shocked!

Perhaps you'd like your mail-order brides and strippers back?

Really Sergei, Russia should concentrate less on jealous envy and bitterness over loss of empire and more on working on your own problems.
 
#9
Virgil said:
An anti-American post by Sergei?

I'm shocked!

Perhaps you'd like your mail-order brides and strippers back?

Really Sergei, Russia should concentrate less on jealous envy and bitterness over loss of empire and more on working on your own problems.
So you don't actually have an answer to the points raised in the 1st post then?
 
#10
not surprised given the opinions expressed on some (very right wing) US forums regarding US cars and how bad they are (especially GM regarding its request for a bailout) and how they should be just allowed to fail Rover style
 
#11
jagman said:
Virgil said:
An anti-American post by Sergei?

I'm shocked!

Perhaps you'd like your mail-order brides and strippers back?

Really Sergei, Russia should concentrate less on jealous envy and bitterness over loss of empire and more on working on your own problems.
So you don't actually have an answer to the points raised in the 1st post then?
Sure, I'll answer an idiotic post.

Capitalism; you want the great benefits then deal with the boom-bust cycles. Learn a lesson from each one, recover and move on.

The US will do it's recession thing, the world won't end and it'll come out of it. We can compare the GDPs of Russia and the US if you'd like. Or the per capita incomes.

Or the fact the US economy gets sick the rest of the world gets just as sick. When the Russian economy gets sick everyone gets more prostitutes, strippers and mail-order brides.

Good enough for you?
 
#12
jagman said:
Virgil said:
An anti-American post by Sergei?

I'm shocked!

Perhaps you'd like your mail-order brides and strippers back?

Really Sergei, Russia should concentrate less on jealous envy and bitterness over loss of empire and more on working on your own problems.
So you don't actually have an answer to the points raised in the 1st post then?
I don't need education on the faults and problems on the West - certainly not from a stirer like Sergey.

I would far rather have an accurate description of the truth of things in Russia; something difficult to get, something Sergey is in a good position to be able to do and something I would listen to. I have been trying to get Sergey to get the hint for a while.

If he started providing that type of info for us, I might start listening to him if he dropped the odd thread in for us to bite at. At the moment all he is is someone to ignore.
 
#13
Virgil said:
jagman said:
Virgil said:
An anti-American post by Sergei?

I'm shocked!

Perhaps you'd like your mail-order brides and strippers back?

Really Sergei, Russia should concentrate less on jealous envy and bitterness over loss of empire and more on working on your own problems.
So you don't actually have an answer to the points raised in the 1st post then?
Sure, I'll answer an idiotic post.

Capitalism; you want the great benefits then deal with the boom-bust cycles. Learn a lesson from each one, recover and move on.

The US will do it's recession thing, the world won't end and it'll come out of it. We can compare the GDPs of Russia and the US if you'd like. Or the per capita incomes.

Or the fact the US economy gets sick the rest of the world gets just as sick. When the Russian economy gets sick everyone gets more prostitutes, strippers and mail-order brides.

Good enough for you?
Just about, far more constructive than just telling Sergei he is a cnut :D
 
#14
in_the_cheapseats said:
What's manufacturing like in Russia, Sergey? Is it in the same poo as the rest of your economy?
Unfortunately, mate, bankrupcy of Lehman Bros. seriously affected production of wooden spoons. However thanks to our American friends Ford plant near St.Peterburg is working full steam.
 
#15
Virgil said:
Capitalism; you want the great benefits then deal with the boom-bust cycles. Learn a lesson from each one, recover and move on.

The US will do it's recession thing, the world won't end and it'll come out of it.
So, you don't see any problem. Well.

Virgil said:
We can compare the GDPs of Russia and the US if you'd like. Or the per capita incomes.

Or the fact the US economy gets sick the rest of the world gets just as sick. When the Russian economy gets sick everyone gets more prostitutes, strippers and mail-order brides.
Morale: dependence from American economy should be lowered by all means. As for Russia then (for example) dependence from gas supplies is not so important.
 
#16
KGB_resident said:
Virgil said:
Capitalism; you want the great benefits then deal with the boom-bust cycles. Learn a lesson from each one, recover and move on.

The US will do it's recession thing, the world won't end and it'll come out of it.
So, you don't see any problem. Well.
Reread my statement.

Morale: dependence from American economy should be lowered by all means.
Wrong 'morale'.

Your solution is to not sell products for profit to the major single world market? Not to buy products or services in telecom, software, hardware, etc., that might be superior on a quality and value calculation?

That equals less growth for world economies and negative growth for others. Not exactly a approach geared to winning a Nobel prize in economics. Or one on common sense.

What you want is to decouple the world economy from the U.S. economy. Bizarre economic advice, but it does fits right in to Russian foreign policy strategy. Attacking U.S. power of course seems to be Medvedev's ultimate foreign policy goal.

You've completely ignored that other banks in the EU and elsewhere bought into the same bubble as the U.S. market calling into question their own comments about greed and the need for regulation in the U.S. In other words if they were as 'on the ball' as some seem to think they wouldn't have bought the derivatives.

Hint:They did.

As for Russia then (for example) dependence from gas supplies is not so important.
If not for oil and natural resources Russia is inconsequential enough that it could fall off the the face of the World economic map and would scarcely be noticed.

Russia is it's own worst enemy. Putin and Medvedev are driven by some sense of anger at it's loss of Russian empire, embarking on Georgian adventures that cost it foreign investment (before the bubble remember?) and now engaged in some Quixotic battle of foreign policy against the U.S.

It's a nation that needs an army of psychologists to deal with it's inferiority comple, bitter jealousy and envy. Vienna are you listening?

Sad because it's a nation of great potential, especially in its human resources.

And in what must might be in some ways the foreign policy triumph of the decade we are about to elect the Messiah the rest of the world seems to have hoped for.

Psychologists Sergey, you'll need lots of them.
 
#18
Domovoy said:
Virgil said:
Capitalism; ?
I thought the US is embracing socialism nowadays?
More like Keynesianism but the far right has difficulty with economic definitions sometimes.

Not the first time a Keynsianism/socialism/whatever has dampened the effects of capitalism's ugly side in America. LINK

I've always thought that the game should be capitalism but with a strong gov't as a referee to keep it honest. The problem is of course the quality of competency and honesty in the gov't.

I don't see capitalism as an ideology but as the most efficient method to get the economy to continue to progress. When that method sometimes falters at a certain point use another until not needed.
 
#19
Virgil said:
I've always thought that the game should be capitalism but with a strong gov't as a referee to keep it honest. The problem is of course the quality of competency and honesty in the gov't.

I don't see capitalism as an ideology but as the most efficient method to get the economy to continue to progress. When that method sometimes falters at a certain point use another until not needed.
x2 - will have to remember that one.
 
#20
Virgil said:
KGB_resident said:
Virgil said:
Capitalism; you want the great benefits then deal with the boom-bust cycles. Learn a lesson from each one, recover and move on.

The US will do it's recession thing, the world won't end and it'll come out of it.
So, you don't see any problem. Well.
Reread my statement.
Vigil, I understand your statement as you don't see problems. That the crisis is something natural, merely a part of capitalist model.

Frankly speaking I believe that current crisis is too deep and as a result extraordinary measures should be used.

Virgil said:
KGB_resident said:
Morale: dependence from American economy should be lowered by all means.
Wrong 'morale'.

Your solution is to not sell products for profit to the major single world market? Not to buy products or services in telecom, software, hardware, etc., that might be superior on a quality and value calculation?
No, Virgil, you understand me in the wrong way. Of course, trade (I mean profitable trade) with any partner (including the USA) is much welcomed. However, it is unwise to fall in technological dependence from single manufacturer.

You mentioned hardware and software. Our firm is using different types of controllers (for industrial automation) including French Schneider Electric, German Siemens, American Allen Bradley. Suppose that for this or that reason American controllers would be unavailable for us. No problem, we would use alternative solutions.

Btw, I understand our European friends. Dependence from Russian gas supplies is not good at all. And I understand the Americans. Dependence from external oil supplies is not good as well.

It appears that too many banks, corporations and even countries are deeply dependant from American financial system. So it would be logical to lower such a dependence. And I'm sure it will happen.

Virgil said:
What you want is to decouple the world economy from the U.S. economy. Bizarre economic advice, but it does fits right in to Russian foreign policy strategy. Attacking U.S. power of course seems to be Medvedev's ultimate foreign policy goal.
I prefer a term decentralisation and this process doesn't depend on personal opinions or wishes. The USA are becoming merely the biggest part of World economy, not its centre like you it or not.

Virgil said:
You've completely ignored that other banks in the EU and elsewhere bought into the same bubble as the U.S. market calling into question their own comments about greed and the need for regulation in the U.S. In other words if they were as 'on the ball' as some seem to think they wouldn't have bought the derivatives.
Indeed many European banks invested in the American bubble and lost money. It is a good lesson for them and others - avoid too deep integration with American financial system.

Virgil said:
KGB_resident said:
As for Russia then (for example) dependence from gas supplies is not so important.
If not for oil and natural resources Russia is inconsequential enough that it could fall off the the face of the World economic map and would scarcely be noticed.
It can be said about the majority of countries in the World.

Virgil said:
Russia is it's own worst enemy. Putin and Medvedev are driven by some sense of anger at it's loss of Russian empire, embarking on Georgian adventures that cost it foreign investment (before the bubble remember?) and now engaged in some Quixotic battle of foreign policy against the U.S.

It's a nation that needs an army of psychologists to deal with it's inferiority comple, bitter jealousy and envy. Vienna are you listening?

Sad because it's a nation of great potential, especially in its human resources.

And in what must might be in some ways the foreign policy triumph of the decade we are about to elect the Messiah the rest of the world seems to have hoped for.

Psychologists Sergey, you'll need lots of them.
Maybe we need, maybe not. I think we will decide it ourselves.

As for human resources then looking at highly esteemed mr.Bush one could suggest that the Americans need more teachers and professors.

Btw, so called 'messiah' is amazingly incompetent in interational affairs.
 

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