US gunnery footage w/ internal comms.

Discussion in 'RAC' started by California_Tanker, Jul 30, 2007.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Don't know if you guys have seen this before, but if interested in US tank procedure, this is video footage taken during a gunnery run in Ft Irwin a month ago.

    The video is taken by the camera on the control tower, the audio is the internal tank comms over the jump radio. As the camera operator has no idea what the tank is aiming at at any particular time, he takes a guess, and usually gets it wrong. It's missing the first couple of engagements, unfortunately.

    Not everything goes well inside the tank, unfortunately, couple of mechanical malfunctions to deal with and work around. For example, the third night engagement (with three tanks) is slow because there is an extraction problem and the TC and Loader together are performing a two-man reloading process.

  2. Commendable lack of swearing. Back in my day we either carried a VCR on the vehicle or were connected by cable to the TOGS caravan for static shoots. One officer had me drop the VCR repeatedly until it broke. At the end of ranges we would retire to the bar and watch a selection of embarrassing/funny vids.
  3. Havn't been able to watch that clip yet, a bit suprised that the US Army haven't got LFME (Live Firing Monitoring Equipment) as we have along with the Germans (whom we bought it off & the Dutch) :?

    But leads me nicely into, why did the CAT stop in 91? The reason I ask is that I did a Google search on it the other day & that wonderful trophy is in some Dutch Armour camps museum. It also showed a link to a 'Master Gunners' site with lots of pics of the 'Perfect Scoreing Tank' 8O

    So should it come back, how would we fare, would the Germans still form their special crews & map all the targets on range 9. Would our American cousins have removed range 9 from the SIMNET programme down in Graff, which we saw by mistake around 88, when we were their guests. Over to you :D
  4. As a gunnery instructor I did find that interesting but you need to sort out that stupid obscuration report. I am a bit out of date now but our gunners would report not observed once only if they did not see where the round went. If that report is due uncertainty of a hit on target why keep saying it? That gunner going on and on clutters up the intercom and the radio and would annoy the hell out of me.
  5. Required by the rules of the Table VIII scoring, I'm afraid.

    In real life, a single 'obscuration' report is fine, but for the scores on a Table VIII, the engagement clock 'stops' if the gunner is still reporting obscuration when the loader announces 'up', and only restarts again if the gunner stops reporting it, if the evaluators opine that the crew are lying and really can see, or if a fire command is given for the main gun or coax which indicates that someone in the tank can see the target. The intent is that you can compare the scores between a crew who shot on a dry desert to one who shot the same range after a thunderstorm and did not suffer the same disadvantage. Table VIII games are not my favourite feature of tank gunnery in the US Army. The 'correct' thing to do, for example, when the breech started acting up would be to pull off the range and get it fixed instead of suffering the penalty of slow engagement times (and thus lower scores) by trying to fight through the problem, in this case with a two-man reloading process.

  6. AlienFTM

    AlienFTM LE Book Reviewer

    It's my understanding that the quest to win the trophy was leading nations to create a separate elite CAT team rather than generally improving tank gunnery throughout the corps, so the CAT had outlived its usefulness.

    Or a meringue?
  7. Tankie2ndrtr

    Tankie2ndrtr Old-Salt Reviewer

    Pah, bit to much chitter chatter in there, as my old cmdr used to inforce! if it wasnt part of a fire order i wasnt allowed to say it going down range!.
  8. elovabloke

    elovabloke LE Moderator

    Which part of the fire order was "WTF did that go" :D
  9. Not surprised at all, albeit a very good training aid, who wants a 'spy in the cab' anyway. I know at least one cmdr who rues the day he said anything derogatory about his OC and forgot he was being taped!!! :D :wink:
  10. Kindof takes the fun out of it, no?

    It wasn't recorded on the tape, but I had my Zune playing music over the intercom between engagements. Specially selected, anything from "Flirting with Disaster" (Molly Hatchett) through the Monty Python theme. ("The Liberty Bell", by Souzsa). AC/DC is good for doing a gunnery to as well.

    The Tower never did comment on my tune selection. :(

    During our Dining Ins, we often have a 'truth bowl.' Bascially, you show up with a bunch of quarters, and someone calls out "If you ever...."

    For example... "If you ever had a dog named 'Sabot'", and everyone (there's always a couple) who did, throws a quarter into the bowl. The money is collected for the unit fund, charity, whatever.

    Well, a popular one is "If you ever said 'On the way' immediately followed by 'Oops'"

  11. Tankie2ndrtr

    Tankie2ndrtr Old-Salt Reviewer

    Yeah massivley but it was 12 mins of hard concentration ! or however an ACT was, lol We did win Best crew 05 for it though. Much more fun as a loader though. the turret was full of long orange tubes. :D

    Here is a Vid of the US "tankers" loading.
  12. Tankie2ndrtr

    Tankie2ndrtr Old-Salt Reviewer

    hahah yeah "WTF" was shortly followed by a jab in the back of the head. Which is now why i am so abusive to my gunner.
    Anyone else have this problem?
    I have an encouragement stick which is half a clansman Ae. which he receives short sharpe pokes if he is monging it! or on ranges i steal his flashes and load them before a DS/T !
  13. I recently back from the UK and I can attest to the HUGE difference in internal turret drills. I am re-learning U.S. gunnery now. I was quite worried about jumping into the Cmdr's seat and coming out with "Fin, Tank" and having three guys looking at me like I just landed from Mars.
  14. Yeah, but don't you just miss the track tensioning system?

    TC: "Driver, I hear popping. Tension the track!"
    DVR: "Do we have fifteen minutes?"

    Don't forget, you can ditch the "Hello" business on the radio as well...

  15. I have been being careful not to include "mate" in my conversations. U.S. guys typically think of that as a verb, not a noun.

    I do miss Old Blighty, though. Brilliant time!