US formally protests China navy refusal

#1
China has refused nine U.S. Navy ships and one Air Force jet entry to Hong Kong in the past month, U.S. military officials said Friday.

Senior Navy officials said that Beijing denied permission for the USS Reuben James, a Navy frigate, to make a holiday port call for sailors at the end of December.

The rejection occurred last week, at the same time China refused to allow the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier battle group into Hong Kong for a Thanksgiving holiday port call.

A U.S. Air Force C-17 flight that had been scheduled for a routine resupply of the U.S. Consulate in Hong Kong also was denied permission to enter, Navy officials said.

The Kitty Hawk battle group was eventually granted permission to enter, but by then the ships were well on their way to port in Japan.

Days earlier, China refused to give two U.S. Navy minesweepers safe harbor in Hong Kong during a storm on the high seas.

The United States has filed a formal protest with China over the decisions.

U.S. officials are baffled about the reason or reasons for the port call refusals. China recently has expressed concerns about U.S. arms sales to Taiwan and President Bush's October presentation of a Congressional Gold Medal to the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/11/30/china.us/

Reckon there'll be a tit-for-tat refusal for Chinese warships?

Look's like rising tension in the South China Sea.
 
#2
Why namely protest? Has China any formal obligations to accept American naval vessels in its ports? Would Washiongton protest if North Korea would not allow American warships to use N.Korean ports?
 
#3
KGB_resident said:
Why namely protest? Has China any formal obligations to accept American naval vessels in its ports? Would Washiongton protest if North Korea would not allow American warships to use N.Korean ports?
If North Korea had any good ports for a run ashore I'm sure the US and Royal Navy would be docking there for a little R&R now bore off and go tend your cabages for tonight's soup!
 
#4
Airfix said:
KGB_resident said:
Why namely protest? Has China any formal obligations to accept American naval vessels in its ports? Would Washiongton protest if North Korea would not allow American warships to use N.Korean ports?
If North Korea had any good ports for a run ashore I'm sure the US and Royal Navy would be docking there for a little R&R now bore off and go tend your cabages for tonight's soup!
Airfix, as I see you understand my point pretty well. China is an independent country and it is free to allow or not to allow to enter foreign warships in its ports. The fact that HK previously was extensively used by US navy is irrelevant . Now HK is not under British authority.

PS. I have heard rumours that British navy would be soon renamed into British naval coast guard. So N.Korean (or S.Korean) ports would be of low interst for the UK.

PPS. I hope your morning porridge would be excellent. Though don't drink more than 0.5L of whisky. Such doses are as a rule unhealthy.
 
#5
KGB_resident said:
Why namely protest? Has China any formal obligations to accept American naval vessels in its ports? Would Washiongton protest if North Korea would not allow American warships to use N.Korean ports?
I would suggest it is a common courtesy, especially when ships are trying to get out of the danger of a storm.
 
#6
dingerr said:
KGB_resident said:
Why namely protest? Has China any formal obligations to accept American naval vessels in its ports? Would Washiongton protest if North Korea would not allow American warships to use N.Korean ports?
I would suggest it is a common courtesy, especially when ships are trying to get out of the danger of a storm.
Senior Navy officials said that Beijing denied permission for the USS Reuben James, a Navy frigate, to make a holiday port call for sailors at the end of December.

The rejection occurred last week, at the same time China refused to allow the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier battle group into Hong Kong for a Thanksgiving holiday port call.
It is a silly thing to protest in these cases. Regret? Maybe, but not protest.

A U.S. Air Force C-17 flight that had been scheduled for a routine resupply of the U.S. Consulate in Hong Kong also was denied permission to enter, Navy officials said.
Why not to use civilian cargo plane? I suppose that it would be even cheaper.

Days earlier, China refused to give two U.S. Navy minesweepers safe harbor in Hong Kong during a storm on the high seas.
Such unreliable ships that are unable to withstand storms should be close to American coast or near Phillipines, Japan, Taiwan and other places there they would be able to enter without any delay if needed.

The United States has filed a formal protest with China over the decisions.
The protest means that from American point of view the decisions are unlawful. But why?
 
#7
There seems to be some confusion the exact reasons permission was refused. Normally, something like this is used to send a message, but nobody seems to know what the exact message was. The broad sweep is obvious, but the Chinese tend not to use broad sweeps in exercising national policy.

I'm tempted to put on the tinfoil hat and link this to the Hong Kong elections - PRC not wanting loads of Yanks around stirring up trouble with their evangelical pro-democracy stuff.
 
#8
Smartas:
I'm tempted to put on the tinfoil hat and link this to the Hong Kong elections - PRC not wanting loads of Yanks around stirring up trouble with their evangelical pro-democracy stuff.
You would hardly need baco foil. The US is constantly and undemocratically butting in on other peoples democratic processs. They do it in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Pakistan and anywhere else that takes their fancy.
Nice to see some one sending them away with a flea in their ear once in a while.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#9
goodkurtz said:
Smartas:
I'm tempted to put on the tinfoil hat and link this to the Hong Kong elections - PRC not wanting loads of Yanks around stirring up trouble with their evangelical pro-democracy stuff.
You would hardly need baco foil. The US is constantly and undemocratically butting in on other peoples democratic processs. They do it in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Pakistan and anywhere else that takes their fancy.
Nice to see some one sending them away with a flea in their ear once in a while.
Yes indeed. Hooray for the remaining totalitarian dictatorships, they really know how to stick it to the Yanks!

Good to be reminded what a complete c0ck you are, in addition to your well-known mendacity.
 
#10
Yes indeed. Hooray for the remaining totalitarian dictatorships, they really know how to stick it to the Yanks!
In case you hadn't noticed cpunk much to the alarm of increasing numbers of Americans,the US itself is turning into a totalitarian dictatorship

Good to be reminded what a complete c0ck you are, in addition to your well-known mendacity.
How unfortunate that you should have used that word to describe me. You see whilst you and others were blithly and ignorantly supporting America's invasions I, like the Burl Ive's Grandpa in 'A Cat on a Hot tin Roof' had long since smelt the 'men-das-sit-tee' emanating from from the very mouths of those men who had planned them.
 
#11
goodkurtz said:
Yes indeed. Hooray for the remaining totalitarian dictatorships, they really know how to stick it to the Yanks!
"In case you hadn't noticed cpunk much to the alarm of increasing numbers of Americans,the US itself is turning into a totalitarian dictatorship" :) Rubbish - only the tin foil hat mob from the Democrats and Daily Kos think this!

So how many left wingers were executed or imprisoned in the USA this year?....any chance you could enter the real world sometime? :D

Back on topic - what was also a problem was that hundreds of USN wives and families paid out of their own pockets for flights and hotels hoping to have a reunion with their loved ones in Hong Kong. The Chinese seem to have deliberately targeted the Kitty Hawk to ensure maximum inconvenience.

Wonder if it is also linked to Chinese toys failing simple safety tests and thus putting the economy at risk? After all we've seen illegal drugs used in foodstuffs, packaging that causes illness and toys that have toxic paint or other parts. Hardly worth using cheap labour in China if they poison their customers!
 
#12
Cabarfeidh said:
...what was also a problem was that hundreds of USN wives and families paid out of their own pockets for flights and hotels hoping to have a reunion with their loved ones in Hong Kong. The Chinese seem to have deliberately targeted the Kitty Hawk to ensure maximum inconvenience.
I doubt that there were many those who flight to Hong Kong.

http://www.kittyhawk.navy.mil/news/Story Pages/Story3.htm

USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63) pulled out of its port in Fleet Activities Yokosuka, Japan, Oct. 21, to begin its fall deployment after a month in port
Yokosuka is just near Tokyo. So the wives and the families use to visit Japan to reunite with loved ones and recently had a very good opportunity.
 
#13
Back on topic - what was also a problem was that hundreds of USN wives and families paid out of their own pockets for flights and hotels hoping to have a reunion with their loved ones in Hong Kong. The Chinese seem to have deliberately targeted the Kitty Hawk to ensure maximum inconvenience.
Since when has the American navy been running a passenger service?
If these wives and families had paid out of their own pockets how come then they didn't catch flights? Your story just doesn't hold water. (er hem, sorry about that last line.)
 
#14
cpunk said:
goodkurtz said:
Smartas:
I'm tempted to put on the tinfoil hat and link this to the Hong Kong elections - PRC not wanting loads of Yanks around stirring up trouble with their evangelical pro-democracy stuff.
You would hardly need baco foil. The US is constantly and undemocratically butting in on other peoples democratic processs. They do it in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Pakistan and anywhere else that takes their fancy.
Nice to see some one sending them away with a flea in their ear once in a while.
Yes indeed. Hooray for the remaining totalitarian dictatorships, they really know how to stick it to the Yanks!

Good to be reminded what a complete c0ck you are, in addition to your well-known mendacity.
Because America believes in democracy, and strives to make the world a better place?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6AWl18xWak&feature=related
 
#15
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/11/ap_kittyhawk_071121/

The carrier Kitty Hawk and its support ships had been expected to arrive in Hong Kong on Wednesday morning for a five-day visit, but they were delayed due to problems with “administrative arrangements,” the U.S. consulate said in a statement.

Hong Kong’s Marine Department, which handles logistic arrangements for ships docking in Hong Kong’s deep-water port, said Wednesday it had not yet received any documentation clearing the arrival of foreign military ships.

Foreign warships must get diplomatic clearance from China’s Foreign Office in Beijing before entering Hong Kong waters. The documentation is then passed to Hong Kong’s immigration department and then finally to the Marine Department. It wasn’t immediately clear where the delay happened.
 
#16
The Yanks seen to think they have a god-given right to use Hong Kong at will.

When this visit was refused,the USS Kitty Hawk battle group returned to it's home port of Yokosuka,Japan a few days early.With hindsight,they maybe should have planned to be in port by Thanksgiving,as is routine proceedure for this battle group.

Being that this battle group is forward based in Japan,a high proportion of the sailor's families will be living in Japan.

The battle groups based in the States are away for 6-7 months at a go,but the Kitty Hawk battle group rarely deploys for more than 3 months at a go.
 
#17
goodkurtz said:
Smartas:
I'm tempted to put on the tinfoil hat and link this to the Hong Kong elections - PRC not wanting loads of Yanks around stirring up trouble with their evangelical pro-democracy stuff.
You would hardly need baco foil. The US is constantly and undemocratically butting in on other peoples democratic processs. They do it in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Pakistan and anywhere else that takes their fancy.
Nice to see some one sending them away with a flea in their ear once in a while.
Except it's not really a democratic election as the PRC can veto the result and impose their own people if popular opinion produces the wrong result. However, it'd be far more convenient all round if the election went the way they wanted.

Of course an outside chance is that this incident is related to internal power-play in the Party. This year's Congress saw two Presidential contenders introduced, the front-runner being one Xi Jinping who's a protege of President Hu Jintao and who shares his view that Western-style democracy isn't the way to go.

Putting a spoiler into the HK elections might just be the Party's way of showing support for his faction. These Chinese can be damned inscrutable, when they want to be.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#18
goodkurtz said:
In case you hadn't noticed cpunk much to the alarm of increasing numbers of Americans,the US itself is turning into a totalitarian dictatorship
As it happens, I was in Washington DC all last week. Many of the Americans I spoke to were very much looking forwards to the change in government which will take place next year [edited to add: actually in 2009, but the the election is next year] as the result of 'The Great Republic's' democratic Presidential election, in accordance with the Constitution of the USA. Remind me - without your habitual lies - when the Peoples' Republic of China last held a democratic presidential election?

goodkurtz said:
cpunk said:
Good to be reminded what a complete c0ck you are, in addition to your well-known mendacity.
How unfortunate that you should have used that word to describe me. You see whilst you and others were blithly and ignorantly supporting America's invasions I, like the Burl Ive's Grandpa in 'A Cat on a Hot tin Roof' had long since smelt the 'men-das-sit-tee' emanating from from the very mouths of those men who had planned them.[Mind sp. and gr.]
No, in addition to misleading Arrse members about your military service, you have an irrational dislike of the USA and waste all of our time telling us about it via the medium of your dishonest fantasies.
 

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