US Deploying to Gulf

close combat is yet to take place between them.
Operation Mantis.
Operation Praying Mantis: US Retribution Against Iran - History

is about as close quarter and lethal as it gets, if a little restrained by the US.

By the way, the intelligence which got the U.S. to deploy forces is “Israel”-based.
So this in your eyes immediately disqualifies it?

Nobody believes the likelihood of Iran seeking a reason go to war with the U.S....
...You however in the very next post conveniently provide us with a reason.
sanctions are well known to create further hatred towards the county imposing those sanctions as opposed to creating a regime change and if my country had sanctions forced upon them for over 40 years, and those sanctions were tripled in the last two years, I would be doing my best to phuk up the countries trying their level best to phuk my country over.
You seem a trifle confused, and...
God Forbid a writer from Turkey would ever write an anti-Trump opinion which btw, has a lot of facts in it. A bit like an American writing an anti-Israeli opinion - can't be done without getting vilified I suppose.
... your sarcasm is not entirely wasted as it simply proves the point provided handily by you, exactly why that whole piece is as biased as you.

Try approaching it from why? sanctions are being imposed upon Iran.

The Americans are far from being Angels, however they are to a huge number, yourself not included, preferable to the Iranians in their general approach to human rights and terrorism.
 
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There is growing discontent with the islamic regime within iran.

This woman has had enough of beong forced to wear a hijab inspite of western feminists insisting that everyone wears them because they are stunning and brave

Iran: Woman Dragged Away, Arrested For Protesting Mandatory Hijab Law

President Trump has spoken directly to the iranian people before. As much i the thought of another adventure in the moddle east appalls me, if enough of them want our help to rid their country of a barbaric theocracy then im up for helping them.

As long as its not another syria where the people we help are worse than the regime.
What's the exit strategy?

It's easy to say lets bomb the f-k out of a place and take the bastard(s) down - but we never seem to have a proper exit strategy. Show me one example in the last decade or so where it worked out.
 
Despite Iran’s inferior armed forces Iran has very successfully used a huge variety of asymmetric warfare techniques over the last 35 years to achieve the Influence and concern it now has.
The factor which has done more to increase in Iran’s influence across the Middle East in the last 40 years was the US led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

For all Sadaam’s faults, he offered a counter-weight to Iranian extremism and he was being adequately and relatively cheaply contained with virtually zero human cost to the West by the NFZs until 2003.

I was airborne on Night 1 of GW2, flew throughout the Campaign, and returned to serve on the ground with MND(SE) in 2005 and I consider it an unjustified and illegal military action. For the UK, it was our greatest strategic blunder since Suez; for the US, it was their gravest error since Vietnam and, at a stroke, they lost the entirety of the international support which had swung behind them as a result of 9/11.

The occupation of Iraq produced a vacuum that Tehran was understandably quick to fill, and which led directly to the rise of Daesh and countless other negative consequences.

But let’s also look at the World through Iranian eyes.

To their east and west is Afghanistan and Iraq respectively, in both of which there are considerable US forces enjoying almost unfettered freedom of action. To their south and north are a string of often hostile Sunni Islamic states, many of which are also sympathetic to the US and have major Western military bases. Meanwhile, the USN dominates the Gulf and Arabian seas.

I’d say that would engender a sense of paranoia in many nations.

...Islam is not a tolerant religion, its proponents are quite happy to use methods that most of the rest of world deplores...
I would disagree.

I have a number of Islamic friends, notably from Oman and Jordan. I’ve also travelled extensively throughout the Islamic world and have worked alongside the militaries of many Islamic nations. I have invariably found them tolerant and pleasant communities.

I would suggest that Islam is no less tolerant than any other religion, as long as certain sensitivities are respected.

Regards,
MM
 
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You have proof the Saudi govt supported IS? I’d be interested in your sources. Not RT and their ilk please.
As far as I understand it the problem is the Saudi religious leaders, the Waabi doos or whatever, not the Saudi 'Government'. The Saudi 'Government' however don't interfere because the religious leaders keep the population compliant, which suits the Royal family as they remain 'in Government'.
 
As far as I understand it the problem is the Saudi religious leaders, the Waabi doos or whatever, not the Saudi 'Government'. The Saudi 'Government' however don't interfere because the religious leaders keep the population compliant, which suits the Royal family as they remain 'in Government'.
I agree ref their govt not interfering, albeit they do seem to have done more recently. Money did go to groups such as those affiliated to IS from some Saudi individuals and other Gulf states, but not from the Saudi govt tmk as inferred. E2A: as opposed to Iranian govt sponsorship of organisations like Hezbollah etc.
 
Operation Mantis.
Operation Praying Mantis: US Retribution Against Iran - History

is about as close quarter and lethal as it gets, if a little restrained by the US.


So this in your eyes immediately disqualifies it?


...You however in the very next post conveniently provide us with a reason.


You seem a trifle confused, and...


... your sarcasm is not entirely wasted as it simply proves the point provided handily by you, exactly why that whole piece is as biased as you.

Try approaching it from why? sanctions are being imposed upon Iran.

The Americans are far from being Angels, however they are to a huge number, yourself not included, preferable to the Iranians in their general approach to human rights and terrorism.
Talking about biased... you quoted ME as saying a lot of things when in fact I posted an opinion from another country. Again, I shall ask again are no other opinions allowed or do we follow along blindly and see another few hundred thousand casualty's in yet another American led War?

In this instance I do have a bias towards the regular population of Iran, the reasons of which you do not need to know, and probably wouldn't care even if I did tell you.
 
What's the exit strategy?

It's easy to say lets bomb the f-k out of a place and take the bastard(s) down - but we never seem to have a proper exit strategy. Show me one example in the last decade or so where it worked out.
If you dont invade you dont need an exit strategy or to rebuild

Bombing* can be done anytime

See Libya 1986

* includes dropped and launched novelties by subs, surface ships, aircraft....
 
If you dont invade you dont need an exit strategy or to rebuild

Bombing* can be done anytime

See Libya 1986

* includes dropped and launched novelties by subs, surface ships, aircraft....
Right - just like Iraq then. The State Dept was warning time and time over that we never had any proper plans as to how to properly admin the place and handover - but hey, gung ho, let's do it anyways. Good luck to all those involved.
 
Right - just like Iraq then. The State Dept was warning time and time over that we never had any proper plans as to how to properly admin the place and handover - but hey, gung ho, let's do it anyways. Good luck to all those involved.
Wrong not like iraq then but I understand your need to quibble.
 
It totally is like Iraq - if it happens - thanks to Trump it actually might not happen - one of the few things I support him about. Shit intelligence and the rush to do it.

Personal opinion.
Again it isn't, but I understand your need to make it seem so
 
If you dont invade you dont need an exit strategy or to rebuild

Bombing* can be done anytime

See Libya 1986

* includes dropped and launched novelties by subs, surface ships, aircraft....
If it's just going to be dropping a few bombs, then why the reported 120,000 troops to be sent to the Gulf? I suspect its because they know that Iran may not be willing to follow the script they are given by the US and just sit there and take it without responding. That response could kick off a general war that engulfs the Middle East.

So yes, you do need an exit strategy because your government have no viable plans to limit the scope of the war.
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
If you dont invade you dont need an exit strategy or to rebuild

Bombing* can be done anytime

See Libya 1986

* includes dropped and launched novelties by subs, surface ships, aircraft....
Bombs land in Iran from US

5th Fleet HQ gets whacked by car bombs

Iranian proxies across the region lash out

5th Fleet in Bahrain start to feel the pressure. Missiles start hitting ships in the SoH.

5th Fleet needs additional troops to support the civil war now breaking out in Bahrain to secure its base

More bombing by US.

Iran crosses the boarder in to Iraq

US has to decide support Iraq or withdraw?

It withdraws - Saudi Arabia starts shitting bricks.

US steps up bombing.

Now we have land war with ex-ally Iraq and SA to south pulling out everything to get the US to come to its aid.

US can either commit to land deployment to strengthen Gulf States or leave them.

Oil prices rise.

People get upset

Bolton does a Dr Strangelove and the next thing we know there's fighting in the War Room and someone reckons now is the good time to put ICBM's in to the air.
 
Bombs land in Iran from US

5th Fleet HQ gets whacked by car bombs

Iranian proxies across the region lash out

5th Fleet in Bahrain start to feel the pressure. Missiles start hitting ships in the SoH.

5th Fleet needs additional troops to support the civil war now breaking out in Bahrain to secure its base

More bombing by US.

Iran crosses the boarder in to Iraq

US has to decide support Iraq or withdraw?

It withdraws - Saudi Arabia starts shitting bricks.

US steps up bombing.

Now we have land war with ex-ally Iraq and SA to south pulling out everything to get the US to come to its aid.

US can either commit to land deployment to strengthen Gulf States or leave them.

Oil prices rise.

People get upset

Bolton does a Dr Strangelove and the next thing we know there's fighting in the War Room and someone reckons now is the good time to put ICBM's in to the air.
Sure he does Bolton is evil himself next to Trump, Cheney or Bush41/43 we get it how Yanks are the nazis according to the Arrse literati and NAVCENT has absolutely no FP defences at all
 
If it's just going to be dropping a few bombs, then why the reported 120,000 troops to be sent to the Gulf?
Confirm it is 120K first. thats equivalent to 10 divisions in an army that has 10 divisions in its active component*. Have we seen massive deployments at any US bases in Conus for this? has 2 ID been yanked from South Korea for this deployment? how about calling up the National Guard divisions?

No? odd huh?

then look at where those forces actually go if true. are they ship based crews? or augmenting existing FP units

* Active US Army divisions
1st Armored
1st Cavalry
1st Infantry
2nd Infantry
3rd Infantry
4th Infantry
10th Mountain
25th Infantry
82nd Airborne
101st Airborne (Air Assault)
 
Sure he does Bolton is evil himself next to Trump, Cheney or Bush41/43 we get it how Yanks are the nazis according to the Arrse literati and NAVCENT has absolutely no FP defences at all
The point is, is the US ready to follow through on the scenario outlined by @Guns ?

Bolton is pushing for war (again), but Trump seems to be putting on the brakes and saying "hang on a minute here" because of the issues we are talking about. He is reportedly recently getting advice directly from a retired general (I can't recall who) whom he trusts to counter what Bolton and the Saudis (via Kushner) are telling him.

Things could go either way at the moment, and we are discussing why going in one of those directions would be a really bad idea.

All most of the world wants to do with regards to the Persian Gulf is to keep a lid on and keep the violence down to a commercially tolerable level until we don't need their oil any more. After than they're welcome to kill each other to their hearts' content.
 
Confirm it is 120K first. thats equivalent to 10 divisions in an army that has 10 divisions in its active component*. Have we seen massive deployments at any US bases in Conus for this? has 2 ID been yanked from South Korea for this deployment? how about calling up the National Guard divisions?

No? odd huh?

then look at where those forces actually go if true. are they ship based crews? or augmenting existing FP units

* Active US Army divisions
1st Armored
1st Cavalry
1st Infantry
2nd Infantry
3rd Infantry
4th Infantry
10th Mountain
25th Infantry
82nd Airborne
101st Airborne (Air Assault)

You left out the 7th ID, at Fort Lewis which has administrative control of the 2 Stryker brigades located at said installation.
 
Woodward's book says that the jet was launched after Weapons Tight had been ordered...
Just checked my copy of Woodward’s book and you’re quite correct @Yokel, a SHAR was sent up (albeit after the Brazilian airliner had passed and the decision to hold-fire had been made).

So please accept my apologies.

Regards,
MM
 

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