US Declaration of Interdependence with UK

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by yank_eyetie, May 5, 2007.

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  1. Dry your eyes, petal. If the last true friends you have are getting hacked off with you, maybe a bit more introspection and a bit less teddy-hurling are in order.
  2. Thank goodness we have the common-sense-minded UK to occupy a position - literally and figuratively - between the excesses of the US to the west and the EU to the east.
  3. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Given a choice (and I know that is the last thing we'll get), I'd take the US every time. This, despite their ever increasing unpopularity with the rest of the world. At least with the septics, I can take or leave them, and they do share a good deal more culture with us and the commonwealth than the EU does.

    Let's not also forget a valid point in that article: We will also have to give up most of our relationships and trade agreements with our commonwealth partners because of the EU. NOT a good thing.
  4. I think that if the "great and good" in America had a) been less insular, more culturally aware and b) had some sort of intelligent post-war plan, Iraq wouldn't have ended up as such a clusterf*ck. (This isn't hindsight, I said as much when the war was in progress). The cause was effectively lost with the publication of that photo of Pte Lynndie England with a leash around that poor Iraqi b@stard's neck. It would take the wisdom of Solomon to make sense of the situation now.

    Having said that, don't pay too much attention to our left wing intelligensia. A lot of us Brits are actually rather fond of you Yanks, and I think that the point about Britain cosying up to the United States of Europe was very well made.

    Have you read "Colossus - the rise and fall of the American Empire" by Niall Ferguson? It makes some very interesting comparisons between yesterday's British Empire and today's American "Empire" - arguing that the latter is an empire in denial.

    God bless America. :D :D

    SLR (Not to be confused with SLR Boy).
  5. Besides, the authors of that article completely misunderstand why we're in the EU. It's got nothing to do with trying to be part of a federal Europe, and everything to do with making sure the French don't set up a federal Europe with us in charge. Hence why we were so keen on Poland, etc. joining - if the EU gets big enough, a federal Europe becomes impossible.
  6. If, as you suggest, the EU expands to a size where a federation is impossible, can we please revert to - or, more correctly, begin to create - a proper free-trade zone, which is what most UK voters thought they were voting for when we first joined the "Common Market"?
  7. Define "special relationship". Is that where we are left holding the balloons and licking the windows?
  8. Quite a sad while revealing article showing how insular and imperial the US remain. It’s been known for years of course but like most things with the US, it takes a long, long time to sink in, and, do they really have it within themselves to be any different? The image of ragtime cowboy Joe projected on the high seas – minus trousers of course to make it easier for everyone else to kiss his arrse – appears to finally be seen by Uncle Sam as a caricature of Don Quixote. Like Don Quixote, it’s amusing the first couple of times but has a lifespan, and like Don Quixote it’s a vision of the world not shared by the rest.

    Hopefully after recent publicity, more people are aware that the sentiment of being Britains’ post war generous Uncle was nothing more than the spin of a commercial banker more akin to Uriah Heap. I fail to see how any American has the audacity to mention themselves in the same breath as the Commonwealth? The Commonwealth is a voluntary political, not military, organisation which any member can elect to leave. The fact that today in includes nearly a third of the peoples of the world, and, counties have joined who were not formerly part of the British Empire, says something of its endurance. Even in 1939 when Britain declared war on Germany, this did not include Australia, Canada or New Zealand, who each took their decision to declare war in their own right – just like the US did over two years later.

    Equally, unlike us, the US is not part of Europe. Whether we want to be or not we are part of western Europe – it’s who we are and where we are. Now we’ve decided to stop killing each other for the moment, there’s an opportunity to work out ways to make some changes for our mutual benefit in many areas. Perhaps there are those who would like a Federal Europe, but that doesn’t include me or, as I believe, the vast majority. We have to try and ensure we have the right politicians to represent us and not themselves or their führer.

    Rather strange the article brings in the UN when it’s the US that are the prime spoilers by a long way. Subscribing to the UN means YOU can be told ‘no’ and as a member of the club have to abide by the decision – and pay your subs, Uncle Sam!

    Of course the US doesn’t like us ‘bonding’ with our European cousins, our Commonwealth cousins, the Russians or the Chinese, none of these initiatives include them. As we evolve their antiquated attitude fits less and less along with their ‘step on ants’ and ‘project force’ mentality. In the first place, against who, and in the second place to what ends? Most of the Reds have become or are fast becoming Pink, some going on Mauve. As for the ideological fanatic, no amount of floating cities, ICBMs or part-time members of some flying circus has ever and will ever stop them.

    If the US want to continue to spend billions on their military it’s of course up to them. Alternately they could divert large chunks to make certain areas of their homeland more like Hollywood pretends and less like third world reality.

    Regarding the interests of Britain, I hope and expect they will continue to take a senior seat in any organisation they chose to subscribe to, and not trail fecklessly behind Don Quixotes’ entourage.

  9. That's the master plan, and as far as the UK is concerned has been all along. The problem is that if we hadn't joined there would be a very close political union probably comprising of France, Germany, Italy and Spain on the continent right now. That would come somewhere close to dominating the continent, and British foreign policy since about 1400 or so has been to prevent any one power dominating the continent (usually by fighting against it with the next biggest power(s)). Hence our joining the EU to make sure that it never successfully got too federal.

    As for voting to join a common market, since when do politicians tell the truth?
  10. Wasn't aware this was on the cards? or is this a clever metaphor? (I'm notoriously fick)
  11. No its just a pile of retoric and john wayne poopycock about saving us from! Europe, although the EU is pile of pants we hardly need saving from it and to be honest America would be well to do not poking about with missile defence shields and the poles and czechs also! :roll:

    The rise of islam, personly i am alarmed at the rise of Fundementalist God bother's regardless of the book they spout from! We should treat all these idjits the same.

    The rest of the world! well the rest of the world that is that doesnt agree with the shaved chimp, NeoCons, redneck inbreeds version of democracy.

    Martians! Honestly some of these spams are liveing in loopy lala land :roll: Most of the Americans i know would rather all the loonytunes go take a long walk off a short plank! :lol:

    edited for inbreed spelling :oops:
  12. Quote from the American authors:
    ” The gathering storm is there for all but the willfully blind to see. But we will have a greater chance for victory if, as before, we fight together.”

    (Gene Poteat is president of the Association for Intelligence Officers. William Anderson is a Lecturer at Harvard University.)

    R_T, suggest a fair reply might be from another American source, Forrest Carter, in ‘Gone to Texas’ aka ‘The Outlaw Josey Wales’:

    Senator Lane: ”The war's over. Our side won the war. Now we must busy ourselves winning the peace. And Fletcher, there's an old saying: ‘To the victors belong the spoils’.”
    Fletcher: ”There's another old saying, Senator: ‘Don't p1ss down my back and tell me it's raining’.”


  13. Oh my Buddha, a sarcastic Yank.
    Yes Britian needs to sort out its future not live on its past.
    The Armed Forces are at a critical point, any more abuse and they will be permenantly damaged.
    Open debate at National Level is required not Labours back room deals with the Europeans which will only be announced when its too late to save Her Majesties Armed Forces.
    Yes Gorden you can be PM after me just wait a year or two.
  14. My impression was that generally the Americans wanted us in Europe to (as all ready mentioned) keep it more like a trading block. They certainly seemed keen for the UK to support Turkish (and in future israeli?) membership.

    A pro US UK that leaves the EU totally would not be able to do this.

    I think a lot will boil down to how the euro as a currency performs over the next decade. The linked/centrally fixed intrest rates seems to be playing havoc with some members economies and whilst that continues I can't see any British government wanting to totally integrate. If the euro becomes strong and our economy weakens it might well be the case that integrating further is forced upon us else we be left standing alone beside 3 potential economic super-powers (US, EU, China).

    I doubt an economic/political union with the US would be possible (many americans certainly would not want it) Just think England would become the strongest state in the union ahead of California. A union of the US, Canada & UK would certainly look impressive on the globe though. - Think of all the 'Pink bits'!