US crash sparks Afghanistan riot

Chief Joseph, with out wanting to be rude, when are you going to leave school, sign up and report back whats actually happening on the ground!!

While your comments are somewhat better presented than some on arrse, I can't help but grind my teeth every time I hear your trite, third hand opinions about what's going on in the hotspots of the world
 

C5H12O

Old-Salt
thegimp said:
Kabul has without doubt got the most driving lunacy I've experienced, and thats just the NGOs/UN/PSDs

The locals are even worse

When I retire I'm gonna open up a bodyshop for landcruisers in downtown Kabul

The Americans do drive like lunatics in Kabul, although the locals dont help either!! I did come across a accident involving US soldiers and 2 unfortunate Afghan civilians who were on bicycles and got totalled by the American vehicles driving at speed straight into them. They were killed outright as i saw the 2 bodies lying in the back of a estate car with blood pouring out. The Afghans were getting quite irate and a sizeable crowd were surrounding the soldiers. As we were only a 2 veh move i decided to keep going and call out the QRF when i arrived at the Brit camp, who as it was Gurkhas at the time, arrived and managed to difuse the situation.
 
As a counter to all this spam bashing, the reality is loads of the locals get killed on the roads every day, by locals, its a fact of life, the locals just get a bit more emotional when its foreigners doing the "Knockin" down
 

TABBER

Old-Salt
Every other time we role Im usually witness to some sort of accident between local vehciles and that doesnt insight riot or attract massive civiilian unrest.

The fact CF are in the wreck is just an excuse for what are basically afghanistans answer to council estate chavs to have a pop.

Also, locals know that CF drive fast, and should get out the way. Some of them try to use the rear end of convoys as a quick route thro traffic, other just couldnt give a shit and get in the way. If they tried that elsewhere it's be the three strike rule. Often acciendents are brought on by the locals not doing the logical thing and pulling over for the big, fcuk off, convoy.

C5H12O:
fair play on calling a QRF (if anything to make sure the yanks weren't in shit) but it proves the point, you dont stop, a crowd builds immediatly simply because your CF, not because you've taken out a vehcile, thats just the convienient excuse for what follows.

Chief Joseph:
Im seconding the gimp with this one.

And if the US did fire a warning shot to disperse a threat posed by a crowd then that is perfectly within the rules of engagment.
 
C5H12O said:
thegimp said:
Kabul has without doubt got the most driving lunacy I've experienced, and thats just the NGOs/UN/PSDs

The locals are even worse

When I retire I'm gonna open up a bodyshop for landcruisers in downtown Kabul

The Americans do drive like lunatics in Kabul, although the locals dont help either!! I did come across a accident involving US soldiers and 2 unfortunate Afghan civilians who were on bicycles and got totalled by the American vehicles driving at speed straight into them. They were killed outright as i saw the 2 bodies lying in the back of a estate car with blood pouring out. The Afghans were getting quite irate and a sizeable crowd were surrounding the soldiers. As we were only a 2 veh move i decided to keep going and call out the QRF when i arrived at the Brit camp, who as it was Gurkhas at the time, arrived and managed to difuse the situation.

It's not always the American's fault. I saw something tragically similar in Iraq on a sparsely populated portion of the MSR just north of Ad Diwaniya when a 12 year old boy decided to play 'chicken' with a fully loaded HEMTT barreling down the highway at 55 mph. He shot across the road on his bicycle at the last minute and was run over by it. Not a pretty sight, he lived for maybe ten or fifteen minutes. We witnessed it, ugly as hell, and the Captain with me made the smart, strongly worded, suggestion to bring other vehicles up to shield the scene from everyone driving by. Driver had a kid the same age and was pretty upset while I got the Marines on the horn to get a medic to the scene and one of my PSYOP teams as well. The local Iraqi police showed up, interviewed a few local witnesses who confirmed the boy was at fault and the situation was diffused.

I always fcuking hated driving my Humvees through urban areas.
 
thegimp said:
Chief Joseph, with out wanting to be rude, when are you going to leave school, sign up and report back whats actually happening on the ground!!

While your comments are somewhat better presented than some on arrse, I can't help but grind my teeth every time I hear your trite, third hand opinions about what's going on in the hotspots of the world
Understandable. I've said before to tell me if I'm wrong. I formulate my opinions on what troops who were there, or are there, have told me, rather than from journalists. I'm simply presenting a concern based upon what I've heard, but if your experience says differently, just say so. After all, I'm here learn and hear the point of view of people other than my spam buddies.
 

expat007

Clanker
Chief_Joseph said:
I'm not making excuses for what happened. The problem is that Rummy is trying to send green National Guard and Reserve units out there with little training or self control. The quality of troops is in decline since Rummy tried to shift all of the Military Budget into missiles and jets, while downsizing infantry and special forces. He thought that everything could be won with shiny beepy things. But a tomahawk can't win hearts and minds.

For Gods sake shut up,you dont have a clue as to what youre talking about. SECDEF has championed the expanding role of SOF within the US military. The CA and SF troop strength are being increased along with Naval Special Warfare, Marines have been brought into the USSOCOM fold and you are talking out your ass.
 
I meant pre-9/11 policy which he is trying to shift back now after experiences with cave warfare in Afghanistan and urban warfare in Iraq proved that the tide is turned on the ground, not by a missile. And like I said in the post just before, I only count myself as "sort of" informed, and can only speculate. I was probably a bit beyond my scope of understanding with that statement, and deserved to be knocked down a peg.

Anyway, that opinion was based on a recent argument between Joe Galloway and Larry DiRita http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002540625
 
Bloke suffered a broken nose.

opelcrump.JPG


My tank was stationary. Driver claimed he 'didn't see the tank.'

Of course, first reports say "American Tank rolls over Iraqi civilians in cars"

NTM
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5033162.stm


....The riots began after a US military vehicle crashed into 12 cars in the Afghan capital, killing several people.

People then started throwing stones, and US troops opened fire on the crowd. Other reports said Afghan security forces also opened fire.

At least seven people were killed in the shooting and the riots which followed. No US soldier was hurt in the incident.


A preliminary investigation by the US military has found that its soldiers retaliated in "self-defence", an army spokesman told reporters.

"Our initial investigation .. shows fire came from the crowd and our soldiers used their weapons to defend themselves," Col Tom Collins said.


Col Collins said video footage showed US soldiers firing over the heads of the stone throwing crowds from a machine gun mounted on one of the 12 vehicles in the convoy.

He did not say whether other soldiers in the convoy had fired.

"We just don't know yet who discharged their weapons or even at whom," Col Collins said.

"There is a lot we do not know. We are determined to get to the facts of what happened."
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
Chief_Joseph said:
I'm not making excuses for what happened. The problem is that Rummy is trying to send green National Guard and Reserve units out there with little training or self control. The quality of troops is in decline since Rummy tried to shift all of the Military Budget into missiles and jets, while downsizing infantry and special forces. He thought that everything could be won with shiny beepy things. But a tomahawk can't win hearts and minds.

CJ is, IMnotsoHO correct (and as corrected later) - though admittedly, a lot of US forces are 'green' and they can't stay that way for ever.

In addition, as allured to by another post (NTM I believe), there is a fault with highers - not necessarily guys on the ground.

Firstly, having been exposed to US forces media for several years (US version of BFBS) every five minutes an advert comes on about FORCE PROTECTION FIRST. The US Mil coined phrase meaning save yourself, worry later. This is COMPLETELY ALIEN to brit forces who deal with LOAC, ROE, Mission, Self in that order (though I've seen some pretty sharp transistions between these!). The consequence is that yank milforce is told day in day out PROTECT YOURSELF. As a consequence, their IA drills escalate to opening fire faster than a Swiss Banker can deny there's any jewish gold in his vault… If the message was a little less FORCE PROTECTION and a little more DUTY TO HUMANITY they might stop blowing folk away. I honestly believe that the FORCE PROTECTION drills drummed into their heads is at fault for a lot of this and this is probably because of a US Senator insisting on it or else he woulddn't fund X programme somewhere, Politicians debating ROE is fine but it shouldn't be up to them to insist on its existance (by US law the US has to invade the netherlands if any of its mil personel go to the Hague tribunal to be prosecuted - nice huh). Politicians approve General's ranks and above and if you lose too many boys from Arkansas as a Lt/Col then there is a good chance that when you are up for one star (?) then you'll get bounced by the congressman for Little Rock South or whatever.

It’s a fcked political system that corrupts all the way down to the troops. IMHO
 
California_Tanker said:
Bloke suffered a broken nose.

opelcrump.JPG


My tank was stationary. Driver claimed he 'didn't see the tank.'

Of course, first reports say "American Tank rolls over Iraqi civilians in cars"

NTM

I hope he gave you his insurance details look at the size of that chip on the Abrams!
 

TABBER

Old-Salt
Mr. Happy:

I dont disagree with you entirely, one or to things you mentioned have some substance but in this particular situation:

Your convoys gone static with a vehcile down in a high threat area on a high profile MSR,
A hostile crowd has gathered and is growing, moving ever closer to your lead vehcile throwing stones and chanting 'Death to America!' Half your blokes are trying to pull out the injured, set up some sort of perimeter, on the coms or extingush flames and getting the FFDs out,

Would you shoulder your weapon and bring up some extra for the gun, or start waving and handing out MRE's?

Point to note, we still dont know who fired first.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
TABBER said:
Mr. Happy:

I dont disagree with you entirely, one or to things you mentioned have some substance but in this particular situation:

Your convoys gone static with a vehcile down in a high threat area on a high profile MSR,
A hostile crowd has gathered and is growing, moving ever closer to your lead vehcile throwing stones and chanting 'Death to America!' Half your blokes are trying to pull out the injured, set up some sort of perimeter, on the coms or extingush flames and getting the FFDs out,

Would you shoulder your weapon and bring up some extra for the gun, or start waving and handing out MRE's?

Point to note, we still dont know who fired first.

Oh christ, in this situation I've no idea. I haven't seen the news item apart from CNN in the background and that's no decent starting point as anyone noticing the prepared speeches of the 3 children survivors of the Haditha massacre last night featured nor the death the pro-football ranger blue no blue (summed up with "and as time goes on, the truth slips further and further away and we'll probably never know what happened" - what despite the DOD created re0enactment video demo'ing the damned thing and the testimony in court????

I was really just commenting generally. And for the record, my rifle butt is always in my shoulder, even when I'm taking a p*ss
 
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