US Covered Up Katyn Massacre

#2
So what else is new? It wasn't a time to piss off Uncle Joe..... so the Poles paid the price.

The only annoyance was that it was held to for so long ... I was even banned from going to the Katyn Monument erected in London in uniform!!
 
#3
i did notice that is was "US 'hushed up' soviet guilt" and not "US & UK 'hushed up' soviet guilt", you cant beat a bit of moral highground with your breakfast
 
#4
So what else is new? It wasn't a time to piss off Uncle Joe..... so the Poles paid the price.
It was already a fait accompli by the NKVD, so it wasn't as if anything occurred as a result of the UK/US silence.

What is strange is that the act served to confirm Churchill's suspicion of the Soviets and shape his subsequent policies, whereas Roosevelt and the US administration appeared to go on regarding Stalin as a good guy and equal partner well after 1945.
 
D

Dreamseller

Guest
#6
If i remember correctly there was a BBC programme about Stalin years ago, that had references to how Stalin tried to cover it up, and how the Allies ignored it. I believe Churchill said something about it being pointless in causing a fuss about it.

Edit to add: The programme was called WWII behind closed doors
 
#7
My Uncle told me that he was based in Northern Italy at the end of the war as was involved in sending Thousends of Ukrainians, Cossaks and Yugoslavians back over the border, even though they had surrended to the British. He said you cold hear the constant firing from the firing squads/welcome commitee for weeks on end welcoming them home?
 
#8
At least the US never followed the British example of shipping people off by the trainload to be murdered by the NKVD.
They were actually complicit in this as well. However, the British and US governments were held to ransom by Uncle Joe over the fate of approx 300,000 allied PoW's who lay in the path of the Red Army. In effect, if all Soviet citizens either liberated by or held as prisoners by the allies were not returned, those PoW's would never be seen again. Not a very pleasant man.
 
#10
One thing I've never quite understood about the whole cover up thing: it was clearly essential to keep the Soviets on-side during the war, but why did the UK and US govts continue afterwards, especially when the Soviet Union became the "enemy"? One would have thought that embarrassing them would have been good news.
 
#11
My Uncle told me that he was based in Northern Italy at the end of the war as was involved in sending Thousends of Ukrainians, Cossaks and Yugoslavians back over the border, even though they had surrended to the British. He said you cold hear the constant firing from the firing squads/welcome commitee for weeks on end welcoming them home?
Was your uncle with the 38th (Irish) Brigade by any chance simroy?
 
#12
Katyn The chief executioner : Vasili Blokhin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reading this account makes one rather sick .
Oh, I've read about this bastard before. I've often felt that the pseudo-revolutionary types who like to get their kicks from advocating class warfare should acquaint themselves with the Katyn Massacre (and other associated killings) - the Soviets knew what they were doing when they targeted the Polish aristrocracy, landowners, clergy, intelligentsia, professionals, academics, army officers.....wipe out the social elite in any country and what's left will fall into line. This is the common modus when any Communist/Maoist/Stalinist/*insert left-wing extremism here* group takes over a country.
 
#13
My Uncle told me that he was based in Northern Italy at the end of the war as was involved in sending Thousends of Ukrainians, Cossaks and Yugoslavians back over the border, even though they had surrended to the British. He said you cold hear the constant firing from the firing squads/welcome commitee for weeks on end welcoming them home?
Not my favourite source, but wiki provides a quick and easy link to some basic information for the interested.

Bleiburg repatriations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, hunt down Tolstoi's book The Minister and the Massacres. It's all about the Don Cossacks repatriated after surrending to the British in Austria. They were part of the Wehrmacht (then Waffen-SS) serving in Yugoslavia from '43 until their surrender to the British in May '45.

And people still wonder why there was so much hate lingering in the region in the '90s???? The Balkans (Yugoslavia in particular) has been a killing ground for centuries. Each population group still looking to avenge real and perceived injusties from over 500 years ago, let alone those from the past half-millenia.
 
#14
They were actually complicit in this as well. However, the British and US governments were held to ransom by Uncle Joe over the fate of approx 300,000 allied PoW's who lay in the path of the Red Army. In effect, if all Soviet citizens either liberated by or held as prisoners by the allies were not returned, those PoW's would never be seen again. Not a very pleasant man.
Even today, the Russian uber-nationalist denies any Russian involvment in Katyn as well as wanton acts of savagery over conquored territory. Any documentary evidence is passed off as Yeltsin forgeries and Goebbels propaganda! There is an ARRSE thread or three with just such discussions lurking somewhere.

As regards the savagery and the attempt to protect the Allied PoWs, little was expected and achieved. The Red Army was even taken to assaulting and raping Russian lasses who had been held prisoner and victim of Nazi brutality for the preceeding years!

Those PoWs held in Eastern Europe can be 'thankful' that they were force-marched by the retreating Germans westwards. It was not an easy march by any imagination, but was generally less distrurbing than for thise enveloped by the Red Army advance.
 
#15
I can not remember the name of the book possibly
Robert Jackson, High Cold War: Strategic Reconnaissance and the Electronic Intelligence War (Somerset: Patrick Stephens Limited, 1998)

But the book was about the planes that the American.s sent against the Soviets after the end of the Second World War and also mentions how many of the inadequate machines failed to come home.

When the Wall came down, both governments said nothing about the missing aircrew who are believed to have been held in captivity for a few decades. Bloody American hypocrites... we.ll leave no one behind. Those unlucky aircrew simply disappeared.
 
#16
I can not remember the name of the book possibly
Robert Jackson, High Cold War: Strategic Reconnaissance and the Electronic Intelligence War (Somerset: Patrick Stephens Limited, 1998)

But the book was about the planes that the American.s sent against the Soviets after the end of the Second World War and also mentions how many of the inadequate machines failed to come home.

When the Wall came down, both governments said nothing about the missing aircrew who are believed to have been held in captivity for a few decades. Bloody American hypocrites... we.ll leave no one behind. Those unlucky aircrew simply disappeared.
Aircraft Downed During the Cold War and Thereafter
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
During the war part of St Mary's hospital in Portsmouth was evacuated to a location further out in the country. I suppose about 1943, some shipwrecked Russian sailors washed up there. They spoke no English and a neighbour of 'White' Russian extraction who spoke about six languages was drafted in to talk to them. At the end of her visit they thanked her for her visit but said that now they had spoken to her, when they were repatriated they would be shot.

FDR's evil and stupid wife had a lot to do with the rest of it as she was very pro-Communist and thought Stalin was a good egg.
 
#18
Most Soviet POWs 'liberated' by their own people at war's end were usually immediately arrested, imprisoned in the very places they thought they had escaped, 'interrogated' by the NKVD, and then shot....if they were lucky, otherwise it was a one-way economy class ticket to Siberia.

There were Poles in the Gulag for years after the war's end. An impromptu memorial to the Katyn victims was set-up on Dublin's Grafton Street a couple of years ago.
 
#19
Not my favourite source, but wiki provides a quick and easy link to some basic information for the interested.

Bleiburg repatriations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, hunt down Tolstoi's book The Minister and the Massacres. It's all about the Don Cossacks repatriated after surrending to the British in Austria. They were part of the Wehrmacht (then Waffen-SS) serving in Yugoslavia from '43 until their surrender to the British in May '45.

And people still wonder why there was so much hate lingering in the region in the '90s???? The Balkans (Yugoslavia in particular) has been a killing ground for centuries. Each population group still looking to avenge real and perceived injustices from over 500 years ago, let alone those from the past half-millenia.
My Bold

Needs to be taken with a good pinch of salt. Don´t forget Tolstoi was successfully sued by Lord Aldington for libel due to allegations made against him in this book. Incidentally similar allegations were made against Harold Macmillan who was the British Resident Minister in the Mediterranean and political advisor to FM Alexander (SACMED).

In April-June 1945 Austria was a potential powderkeg. The Americans were advancing from Bavaria into northern Austria, the Soviets, together with Bulgarian units, had taken Vienna and were continuing to advance into what was to be the British Zone. Meanwhile the British were advancing from north-east Italy and the Yugoslavs were poised to enter the same part of southern Austria as the British. Caught in the middle were hundreds of thousands of German troops and their allies and a huge mass of refugees. The Yugoslavs were the major sticking point in all this as Tito was intent on incorporating chunks of north-eastern Italy and southern Austria as part of a 'Greater Yugoslavia' because a large proportion of the population had a Slovenian background. 5 (BR) Corps, in fact, had begun to make preparations for engaging the Yugoslavs and the repatriations can also be seen in the light of 'clearing the decks' for potential combat.

The figures I have seen quoted indicate some 41,000 Cossacks handed to the Soviets and some 26,000 anti-Communist Yugoslavs transferred to Yugoslavia.

Probably the most balanced and impartial account of the controversy is the report of an inquiry made by Brig Cowgill and his colleagues:

Cowgill, Anthony; Brimelow, Thomas; and Booker, Christopher. The Repatriations from Austria in 1945: The Report of an Inquiry. Sinclair-Stevenson, London, 1990. ISBN 1-85619-029-3
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#20
At least the US never followed the British example of shipping people off by the trainload to be murdered by the NKVD.
I was going to make this a new thread - but as ever, Arse is there ahead of me.

Apropos Katyn and the REALITY of what living under Soviet rule was like for non-russians. first hand testimony and worth a read ....
BBC News - A Polish girl's journey across three continents
"There were planks to sleep on, like shelves. I climbed up to the top plank and lay looking out through a grating. I saw Russia going by - just empty spaces and snow." All the way, Danuta recorded what she saw in her diary.

As the journey wore on, babies fell quiet and died. "The guard would come and throw the dead babies out of the window into the snow. When an adult died, they'd put the body on a platform by the engine. When the train slowed, they'd put them off. But the children they just threw away."

The Poles eventually arrived at the Siberian logging camp where they would work. It was part of the old Gulag prison camp system - a complex of timber huts deep in the forest. There was no perimeter wire as there was nowhere to run to.

The forest was eerily still.

"There were no birds singing in the forest. No animals, no wolves or bears. There were not even mice. Nothing. There was nothing there. Perhaps the prisoners had eaten the birds, I don't know. But I never heard a sound."

Danuta's job was to strip bark from birch logs and feed them into a saw mill. She and her younger sister Zosia walked along the railway tracks to find tiny forest settlements. There they could trade their possessions for food.


A Polish odyssey - war service with Gn Anders Free Polish Corps in the Middle East and Italy - finishing in Epping ;-)

Buy the lady a pint if you're passing....remarkable story.
 

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