US bridge collapse

#22
Similar but not quite as bad as this catwalk collapse:
The Hyatt Regency walkway collapse took place at the Hyatt Regency Kansas City hotel in Kansas City, Missouri, on July 17, 1981. Two walkways, one directly above the other, collapsed onto a tea dance being held in the hotel's lobby. The falling walkways killed 114 and injured 216. It was the deadliest structural collapse ...
read more:
Hyatt Regency walkway collapse - Wikipedia

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Not down to poor design that

What happened was it wasn't built to the original design as someone had a great idea to make building simpler.
 
#23
Not down to poor design that

What happened was it wasn't built to the original design as someone had a great idea to make building simpler.
Too much stress on the hanging rods I believe.
 
#24
Too much stress on the hanging rods I believe.
Yes that's what happens if instead of each floor having its own support (as designed) you just make one set longer and hang everything off that.

You just know one of the people involved in that decision wore a purple cape and had a sulphurous odour
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#25
Aye they do mate as is the case with most professions over here. They also have to sit ( I forget what it's called) a continuation training type thing every couple of years to make sure they are up to date with all things regarding their particular profession.
PE status, you cant get a decent job in engineering without it. No time served technicians getting to cover the top jobs, Canada has similar rules. PE=Professional Engineer, similar to being Chartered over here.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#26
The final design may have been completely sound, but the building of it lacked a few bits of scaffolding, metaphorically speaking.
Crash decks (despite the trade trying to rename them as temporary works) serve a purpose.
 
#28
Some law firms will be envisaging a very big payday.
 
#29
Looking at the photos it appears to have dropped on one side. Insecure fixings on that side? Rush to build and supporting concrete not properly set to full strength? Not positioned correctly?

It doesn't immediately look like a structural failure of the bridge itself and the design of these things is well established. Possibly a quality of materials or workmanship issue?

In a past life I was a site surveyor and studied structural and civil engineering. These things are usually designed with a factor of safety and to a good standard. Most issues are through rushing the build, on-site cost cutting or the erection process (design strength is in the finished build, its often weak or unstable up to that point and may need support).

It'll be interesting to see what the cause is.
 
#30
PE status, you cant get a decent job in engineering without it. No time served technicians getting to cover the top jobs, Canada has similar rules. PE=Professional Engineer, similar to being Chartered over here.
Aye ugly it's something like that. My missus is a Doc and as well as keeping up with things in her field of speciality, she still has to do the licencing thing every couple of years to keep her licence to practice medicine.
 
#31
If the UK civil engineering industry relied on chartered engineers, nothing would get built. They are very rare birds these days.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#32
If the UK civil engineering industry relied on chartered engineers, nothing would get built. They are very rare birds these days.
The C eng is the final sign off. When I worked at Carrilion if the graduate didn't get chartered in five years he or she was in the shit. Moved out of the business to make way for youngsters
 
#33
Not down to poor design that

What happened was it wasn't built to the original design as someone had a great idea to make building simpler.
and that's the great thing about Arrse and the internet. I had to go refresh my memory on Wiki and then spent a few hours researching other bridge collapses and other 'engineering' follies.
 
#34
The C eng is the final sign off. When I worked at Carrilion if the graduate didn't get chartered in five years he or she was in the shit. Moved out of the business to make way for youngsters
Thats not my experience on the highway maintenance side of the game. Firm I work for has a handful of C. Eng for bridge jobs, everything else is done by techs and a tiny number of graduates. The number of unqualified people scares the poop out of me but I'll be retiring either this summer or next so meh.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#35
Thats not my experience on the highway maintenance side of the game. Firm I work for has a handful of C. Eng for bridge jobs, everything else is done by techs and a tiny number of graduates. The number of unqualified people scares the poop out of me but I'll be retiring either this summer or next so meh.
Highways is where they dumped the useless ones. That and project management in JV.
 
#36
Highways is where they dumped the useless ones. That and project management in JV.
Tell me about it. My firm employs 200 staff. 25 of which are highly experienced and know what they're doing. The rest? Bums on seats mostly, most of whom show no interest or initiative. Personally I wouldn't pay 'em in washers.
 
#38
Looking at the photos it appears to have dropped on one side. Insecure fixings on that side? Rush to build and supporting concrete not properly set to full strength? Not positioned correctly?

It doesn't immediately look like a structural failure of the bridge itself and the design of these things is well established. Possibly a quality of materials or workmanship issue?
I wouldn’t expect a single-span bridge of that size to be fixed at either end; I’d expect it to be simply supported at both end so that it can expand. Basically it just sits on bearers. One end might have been fixed, but that’s unusual. Usually single spam concrete deck can expand and contract at both ends.

It looks to me that the concrete deck has failed catastrophically in sheer, about ¼ way along the deck from the supports.

There are reports coming out that engineers were tensioning cables in ththe deck, presumably cables that should have kept the concrete in compression. I’m wondering if they screwed up the tensioning sequence, leaving a section unable to exposed to sheer or tensile loads that concrete cannot withstand. Concrete is only strong in compression....
 
#39
I wouldn’t expect a single-span bridge of that size to be fixed at either end; I’d expect it to be simply supported at both end so that it can expand. Basically it just sits on bearers. One end might have been fixed, but that’s unusual. Usually single spam concrete deck can expand and contract at both ends.

It looks to me that the concrete deck has failed catastrophically in sheer, about ¼ way along the deck from the supports.

There are reports coming out that engineers were tensioning cables in ththe deck, presumably cables that should have kept the concrete in compression. I’m wondering if they screwed up the tensioning sequence, leaving a section unable to exposed to sheer or tensile loads that concrete cannot withstand. Concrete is only strong in compression....
Yeah I agree with this technical stuff
 

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