US Blue on Blue

Not the first for Apaches by any means. In February of 1991, the CO of 1/1 Aviation Battalion (1st ID) knocked out a Bradley and an M113 with Hellfire missiles during a night time engagement. He was relieved, not because he killed two Soldiers, but because he disobeyed orders for higher level commanders to stay out of the close-in battle. This incident was reported back then in the Army Times.
An American Apache helicopter has accidentally destroyed one of its own armoured vehicles in eastern Baghdad.

The US military said the 'friendly fire' attack happened after the aircraft crew spotted a group of four militants placing roadside bombs.

A Hellfire missile was fired into the group, killing two gunmen. a 2nd one hit a Humvee.


'friendly fire' I wonder if the troops inside gave a friendly wave to the Apache crew as they hot footed it out of a burning Hummer.

Hmmmm, Speaking of a burning hummer, I met this girl last night and she..............
Lets not forget the 'friendly' fire incidents in Gw1, including the A10 that engaged the warrior, putting DU rounds through the back door. I turned up shortly after, fcukin carnage!!! Always got slightly nervous when those fcukers were above, even with our luminous panels and lights on the roof of our vehicles.
It was mentioned, but don't know how true it is but during GW1 the yanks rules of engagement were: 'Not recognised, engage'. Yeah cos a warrior looks just like a BRDM,BMP, BTR-80............ :roll: :roll:
Lucky not to kill any friendlies. Just looked at the 'Psycho Schmidt' bit. What a loon.
A Hellfire missile was fired into the group, killing two gunmen.
Bit overkill though. Was the pilot bored with 30mm?
callum13 said:
Did they think they was British?
Thinking is not required, nor permitted in the US forces.
uncledermott said:
Don't forget the awful Major 'Psycho' Schmidt:

Mr psycho's reprimand:

U.S. Air Force Verdict

On July 6, 2004 Lt. Gen. Bruce Carlson, 8th Air Force Commander, found U.S. Air Force Major Harry Schmidt guilty of dereliction of duty for his role in the April 17, 2002 Tarnak Farms fratricide bombing incident which resulted in the deaths of four Canadian soldiers and the serious injury of eight others.


Approved Punishment--Schmidt Art 15

Forfeiture of $2,836.00 pay per month for 2 months. Reprimand.

You are hereby reprimanded. You flagrantly disregarded a direct order from the controlling agency, exercised a total lack of basic flight discipline over your aircraft, and blatantly ignored the applicable rules of engagement and special instructions. Your willful misconduct directly caused the most egregious consequences imaginable, the deaths of four coalition soldiers and injury to eight others. The victims of your callous misbehavior were from one of our staunch allies in Operation ENDURING FREEDOM and were your comrades-in-arms.

You acted shamefully on 17 April 2002 over Tarnak Farms, Afghanistan, exhibiting arrogance and a lack of flight discipline. When your flight lead warned you to "make sure it's not friendlies" and the Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft controller directed you to "stand by" and later to "hold fire," you should have marked the location with your targeting pod. Thereafter, if you believed, as you stated, you and your leader were threatened, you should have taken a series of evasive actions and remained at a safe distance to await further instructions from AWACS. Instead, you closed on the target and blatantly disobeyed the direction to "hold fire." Your failure to follow that order is inexcusable. I do not believe you acted in defense of Major Umbach or yourself. Your actions indicate that you used your self-defense declaration as a pretext to strike a target, which you rashly decided was an enemy firing position, and about which you had exhausted your patience in waiting for clearance from the Combined Air Operations Center to engage. You used the inherent right of self-defense as an excuse to wage your own war.

In your personal presentation before me on 1 July 2004, I was astounded that you portrayed yourself as a victim of the disciplinary process without expressing heartfelt remorse over the deaths and injuries you caused to the members of the Canadian Forces. In fact, you were obviously angry that the United States Air Force had dared to question your actions during the 17 April 2002 tragedy. Far from providing any defense for your actions, the written materials you presented to me at the hearing only served to illustrate the degree to which you lacked flight discipline as a wingman of COFFEE Flight on 17 April 2002.

Through your arrogance, you undermined one of the most sophisticated weapons systems in the world, consisting of the Combined Air Operations Center, the Airborne Warning and Control System, and highly disciplined pilots, all of whom must work together in an integrated fashion to achieve combat goals. The United States Air Force is a major contributor to military victories over our Nation's enemies because our pilots possess superior flight discipline. However, your actions on the night of 17 April 2002 demonstrate an astonishing lack of flight discipline. You were blessed with an aptitude for aviation, your nation provided you the best aviation training on the planet, and you acquired combat expertise in previous armed conflicts. However, by your gross poor judgment, you ignored your training and your duty to exercise flight discipline, and the result was tragic. I have no faith in your abilities to perform in a combat environment.

I am concerned about more than your poor airmanship; I am also greatly concerned about your officership and judgment. Our Air Force core values stress "integrity first." Following the engagement in question, you lied about the reasons why you engaged the target after you were directed to hold fire and then you sought to blame others. You had the right to remain silent, but not the right to lie. In short, the final casualty of the engagement over Kandahar on 17 April 2002 was your integrity.
metocman - the punishment is cr*p. He may have lost his integrity, but I think he retired as normal at 20 years service.

I knew a guy in the British army who was court martialled for an ND with a PPW, albeit in a chinese restaurant at 11pm on a Saturday night in Downpatrick after 13 pints.
guys, we all know some other nations troops are a little 'quick on the trigger and happy about it' so to speak, but can we please just discuss this particular incident on its own, and not use it as an excuse to drag up the whole list of thier fu*k ups and turn this thread into yet another spam bashing exersise?

or just tell me to pi*s off, i dont mind.
The spams have been at the blue on blue for a while. American artillery frequently dropped short during ww1 and the 8th army air force spend most of 1944 bombing Pattons 3rd army till he threatened to blow up their airbases.
Since this thread is now a spam bashing thread, I'll add my 2 cents. The big difference I see between the spams and you lot in blue on blue incidents is that the spams keep their bashing in context. They would probably spit fire at the Apache pilot but also recognize that the pilot and other pilots provide life saving air support when in need. That's an attitude that is sorely lacking from most of you Brits here. Cheers!
Typical rant here on arrse.Mistakes happen in war but lets not count British blue on blues say with poison gas in WW1. This is a ridiculous thread.
The article suggests the missile was errant and that no one was killed (thankfully) if thats the case.

Knowing a little bit how Hellfires work, I'm wondering how one "misses" and hits another vehicle (I'm assuming) that wasn't close by.

Here's some footage of a 1991 Apache blue on blue. The pilot is very cautious and seems to question himself over and over, when he finds out he is very distraught.

The footage paints a very different image than the cowboy image many here seem to conjure up.

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