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US Army vs British Army recruitment and enlistment.

#1
Chatting with a mate from Uni about my recent application for the Army, and he couldn't understand the ''lengthy'' process we have ... Personally I think it's a very good system, properly screens applicants for suitability and esures applicants find themselves in a role they are more or less suited for.

But, are there benefits to process like the US have? Anyone have any knowledge/experience with the US system?

Your Visit to MEPS | GoArmy.com - A link to the US army entry process.
 
S

Screw_The_Nut

Guest
#2
There seems to be alot more nutters who slip through the net in the US system, and end up all over world news networks...
 
#3
Size of US forces versus combat troops they can put in the field?

A large chunk of the US total force is effectively a public works program.

1933 FDR implements The New Deal to combat mass unemployment, the Navy also expands and people want to join up as a posting to pacific fleet was considered to be a good lifestyle, 1939 the war kicks off and the US start to gear up for involvement and a huge US war machine comes into being providing mass employment both in the military and in the defence industry which is required by law in many cases to manufacture in the US.

While the defence industry is possibly smaller today it still employs very large numbers of people who otherwise would not have a pot to piss in, entire US communities rely on it.
 
#5
Bradley Manning,
Naser Jason Abdo,
Nidal Hasan,
Jeremy Hinzman
Calvin Gibbs
Jeremy Morlock
Andrew Holmes
Adam Winfield
Michael Wagnon
James P Barker
Paul Cortez
Steven D Green
Jesse V. Spielman
Bryan L. Howard,
David Bunt,
Diedra Cobb
Dan Felushko
Stephen Funk
Abdul Henderson
Brandon Hughey
Ghanim Khalil
Jimmy Massey
Charmaine Means
David Sanders
Michael Sudbury
Wilfredo Torres
Carl Webb
Abdulla Webster
Charles Graner
Lynndy England

Yup, the American selection scheme is obviously better than ours, let's copy it!
 
#6
Playing Devil's advocate here, but they have significantly more people in their Armed forces, so it's only fair they'd have more nutters too....
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
#8
You are confusing simple numbers with frequency.

However the frequency may indeed be greater.
You're not seriously suggesting that the British Army is relatively underendowed with sociopaths when compared with the US Army, are you? I'd put our psycho quotient at around the same, perhaps even slightly higher - which is why we tend to control access to sharp things and live ammunition when not actually in combat a bit more rigorously than the Cousins.
 
#9
You're not seriously suggesting that the British Army is relatively underendowed with sociopaths when compared with the US Army, are you? I'd put our psycho quotient at around the same, perhaps even slightly higher - which is why we tend to control access to sharp things and live ammunition when not actually in combat a bit more rigorously than the Cousins.
When an official sentencing deal with a public defender can be "prison or the army" then I would have to say that they just pip us to the post.
 
#10
The US system relies heavily on the individual 'de-selecting'.

Not just in training, where if certain standards aren't met then the individual can be discharged, re-cycled (or back squaded to us) or given remedial training (ie allowed to continue at risk). Discharge can be applied for after 4 weeks.

Their equivalent to selection is carried out in the first week of basic. If they are unable to meet the 'pass in' standards they are moved to training company that deals with those not fit to continue up the line. Once past this 'pass in' selection, they move through 3 'phases' oddly enough red, white and blue (yes they really are that cheesey). Progression to the next level is by meeting the standards laid down at the end of each part.

But also as they progress through their career. Not hitting certain ranks by certain points can lead to discharge or being held (if in a under recruited trade) under a sort of probation.

They love examinations and stuff like that for promotion too.

During basic holding food that doesn't come from the chow hall, or indeed eating outside of chow times is considered naughty, as is smoking.

As mentioned above, far bigger Army and far bigger system. I guess there is a sort of 'Starship Troopers' feel to the recruiting and training. In that the individual 'de-selects' rather than teh US Army turning them away. Everyone is offered the chance to serve, they just mght not be that good once they get there.

If you've ever worked with them, you'll know how mince alot of them are. I'd take a redarse british pte anyday of the week, over two 1 to 3 year PFCs.

ETA on the lunatic point. I am not aware of any British soldiers brassing up their mates eitehr on Ops (as one or two yanks have done) or even in fcuking camp! I'll have to google it, but not too long ago one American soldier hid on a hill and start blatting at his Regiment doing moringin PT! IIRC it was Lejuene or Pendleton and was USMC.
 
#11
When an official sentencing deal with a public defender can be "prison or the army" then I would have to say that they just pip us to the post.
Heh. It wasn't *that* long ago that words of advice were offered to noisy youth that enlistment into Her Majesty's Armed Forces would be a cracking way of avoiding official attention to their activities.

Come to that, how else could the Kingos ever recruit?
 
#12
Heh. It wasn't *that* long ago that words of advice were offered to noisy youth that enlistment into Her Majesty's Armed Forces would be a cracking way of avoiding official attention to their activities.

Come to that, how else could the Kingos ever recruit?
That's informal.

The US courts actually use it as a sentencing option.
 
#13
That's informal.

The US courts actually use it as a sentencing option.
I'd have to take your word for it - I was under the impression that it was sometimes offered by local prosecutors or judges as an option to formal proceedings, rather than as an explicit post-conviction sentencing option. I think the US Armed Forces are as sticky as we are about actual criminal records, still (despite the rather drastic throwing open of the boot camp gates to all sorts in the last ten years as high-grade recruits have begun to dry up in the USA).
 
#14
Plenty of nutters in the british army and some of the officers are a bit odd too :)
But then again some of theres citys make Ni in the bad days look peaceful PJ O rourke pointed that out in holidays in hell.
A vicious inter communal civil war nah come to america we will show you how its done :(

Did run into a couple of scousers who joined the foreign legion to avoid being done for joy riding.
Bet liverpool plod when they got the interpol request laughed long and hard 3 months in jail or 6 years in the legion
Think i'd take jail.:)
 
#15
The US courts actually use it as a sentencing option.
The courts might, but the US Forces wont take them if they know that they have been given such a 'sentance'. To the point that they actually have codes for it. Basically a Judge saying prison or service to a hood is saying prison or freedom.

As the hood has to volunteer for service, of his own free will. If he subsequently discharged from the forces he can not be 'double jeopardied'.

It is essentially giving a toe rag the chance of redeeming themeslves if they want to. Not foricing them, as in times gone by.

It would be similar to a judge being leniant on a British lad who was intent on joining up, in order to facilitate that lads joining.
 
#16
Yanks get lots of shiny kit which they struggle to use properly, Brits would love to get their hands on the kit but make do with rocks and sharp sticks. Sort of sums it up i feel.
 
#17
Well, a judge or prosecutor can do whatever they please (within the limits of the law for their jurisdiction), but -- that doesn't mean the military branches are required to accept such people and -- they don't.

The Army addresses this issue in the Army Recruiting Regulation, Army Regulation 601-210, paragraph 4-8b: "Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment.."

The Air Force Recruiting Regulation, AETCI 36-2002, table 1-1, lines 7 and 8, makes an applicant ineligible for enlistment if they are "released from restraint, or civil suit, or charges on the condition of entering military service, if the restraint, civil suit, or criminal charges would be reinstated if the applicant does not enter military service."

The Marine Corps Recruiting Regulation, MCO P1100.72B, Chapter 3, Section 2, Part H, Paragraph 12 states: "Applicants may not enlist as an alternative to criminal prosecution, indictment, incarceration, parole, probation, or other punitive sentence. They are ineligible for enlistment until the original assigned sentence would have been completed."

In the Coast Guard, enlistment prohibition is contained in the Coast Guard Recruiting Manual, M1100.2D, Table 2-A.

Interestingly, the Navy Recruiting Manual, COMNAVCRUITCOMINST 1130.8F, does not appear to contain any provisions which would make such applicants ineligible for enlistment. However, I've been informed by several Navy recruiters that the Navy will not accept applicants for service, as an alternative to criminal prosecution or other punitive sentence.
Join the Military or Go to Jail?

And a piece from the Telegraph on why young offenders make quite good Britih Army Recruits.

Ex-prisoners 'make better Army recruits than today's teenagers' - Telegraph
 
#18
Join the Military or Go to Jail?

And a piece from the Telegraph on why young offenders make quite good Britih Army Recruits.

Ex-prisoners 'make better Army recruits than today's teenagers' - Telegraph
Despite what you may think that has only a limited application.

They did at one time in recent years and I don't know if this is still the case run a young offenders wing run by the army with the colly style regime, it was run along side a normal young offenders nick.

It was optional and they did send some back, while they were as rule more motivated and some did go on to armed service it is not widely representative of young offenders as a whole.
 
#19
Sorry, you'll have to explain that one a bit.

The telegraph piece was just an interst piece that I'd found googling for US court ordered recruitment.

The top link and quote show where the US Forces actually have rules against taking on criminals in 'jail or join up' scenarios.

However, if you've any more info on the YO wing it sounds interesting.
 
#20
What absolute bollocks. First the US Armed Forces do not enlist personnel with a criminal history, they tried it, the Army in particular, recruiting individuals with misdemeanors on their rap sheet, no felonies, for a while and it didn't work - just as it didn't in the British Army. I remember individuals who were given the choice enlist or prison right at the end of National Service they were tossers, thieves, idle f*cks, and Ops dodgers. To a man they were thrown out. Scum are scum, the army is not a rehab centre for felons.
 

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