US Army Next Generation rifle/support weapon

[medwaymud]

We have a winner!

The M5 & The M250

How does one fix bayonets on that thing ?

 

[incendiarycutlery]

How does one fix bayonets on that thing ?

Americans are scared of bayonets so they won’t.

 

[medwaymud]

Americans are scared of bayonets so they won’t.

Must be a generational thing then .
Was at an Auction yesterday ( not Militaria ) but a US Springfield ? 1917 Bayonet + scabbard was up for bidding.
Reached over £100 - and was not sold as it was way under true value.
Was a lovely item, in a wicked sort of way.

 

[TamH70]

How does one fix bayonets on that thing ?

Oh go on then, l will bite:

"With great difficulty as there is no bayonet lug on that musket."

 

[Gone2ratshat]

The following is a good video on the new US rifle. It's informative and worth watching.

They mention near the beginning of the video that the military ammunition runs at a much higher pressure than the civilian ammunition currently on the market and hence have higher muzzle energy. They also said that different civilian rounds themselves run at different pressures. This may answer the questions raised earlier about why some videos seem to show shooters experiencing different degrees of recoil.

At the start of the video they say they will compare two types of civilian ammunition and some military ammunition they had, but I don't recall them actually doing it in the video.

Their conclusion is they like the rifle from the perspective of a civilian sport shooter. However, they said that the weight of the rifle and it's ammunition cause them to question its practicality as a standard infantry rifle. Rather, they see it as more suitable as a replacement for 7.62x51mm for snipers and marksmen.

Impressive, 140gr at 3000fps + will be more effective / destructive than a 7.62 x51 although I wonder what barrel life will be running at 80,000 psi, buffer spring location was impressive also allowing a folding stock. The only negative so far seemed to be weight also ammunition will be a lot heavier.

 

[medwaymud]

Oh go on then, l will bite:

"With great difficulty as there is no bayonet lug on that musket."

Precisely!
Have bayonets been banned recently under the Geneva Conventions ? Will we no longer need them as the nature of warfare goes all 'High Tech ' ?
Or did the biff who designed it forget to put lugs in the moderator design drawings ?

 

[Dreamseller]

How does one fix bayonets on that thing ?

US Army removed bayonet training from basic training in 2010

 

[ugly]

They mention near the beginning of the video that the military ammunition runs at a much higher pressure than the civilian ammunition currently on the market and hence have higher muzzle energy

Another nail in the coffin of Civilian marksmanship, that ammunition will no doubt be banned by the likes of the UKNRA, they won’t allow 22-250 or 25-06 factory ammunition

 

[ugly]

Must be a generational thing then .
Was at an Auction yesterday ( not Militaria ) but a US Springfield ? 1917 Bayonet + scabbard was up for bidding.
Reached over £100 - and was not sold as it was way under true value.
Was a lovely item, in a wicked sort of way.

Not worth over £100, £45 is the most I have paid

 

[TamH70]

Another nail in the coffin of Civilian marksmanship, that ammunition will no doubt be banned by the likes of the UKNRA, they won’t allow 22-250 or 25-06 factory ammunition

What's their attitude to propa Orky ammunition like .338 Lapua Magnum? White-faced shock and stunned looks?

 

[ugly]

What's their attitude to propa Orky ammunition like .338 Lapua Magnum? White-faced shock and stunned looks?

Don’t even bother

 

[TamH70]

Don’t even bother

They sound like a right bunch of horrible American generator manufacturers. "Onan"ists to be exact.

 

[medwaymud]

Not worth over £100, £45 is the most I have paid

Maybe not Springfield ? VGC or provenance a possibility ?
I was not bidding and had done no research on it.
Nice item, though.

 

[ugly]

Maybe not Springfield ? VGC or provenance a possibility ?
I was not bidding and had done no research on it.
Nice item, though.

For it to be valuable it would need to be a Vickers or next down a Winchester made one!
I have a No7 which I splurged &100 on but a rare version would be No7M modified for the rifle No9
P14 and M1917 bayonets are far from rare!

 

[Gone2ratshat]

What's their attitude to propa Orky ammunition like .338 Lapua Magnum? White-faced shock and stunned looks?

NRA ranges are not the only place you can shoot, I've got a 338Lap.

 

[terminal]

Another nail in the coffin of Civilian marksmanship, that ammunition will no doubt be banned by the likes of the UKNRA, they won’t allow 22-250 or 25-06 factory ammunition

From the sounds of it the ammunition being sold on the US civilian market for it is not the same as the ammunition available to the military. The civilian ammunition operates at a lower pressure and I expect uses a different bullet.

I won't be surprised if the military ammunition does not become available on the US civilian market due to concerns about how well the rifles will hold up at the higher pressures used. The military has much more closely controlled use and good follow up on failures compared to the civilian market and it would not surprise me if SIG aren't interested in touching the civilian market with a barge pole except with a reduced pressure round.

I also expect there would be a limited civilian market for what we can expect to be very expensive ammunition. I doubt it offers the civilian market anything that existing belted magnum rounds (such as 7mm magnum or .300 magnum) don't already, so why buy an even more niche cartridge?

 

[terminal]

Impressive, 140gr at 3000fps + will be more effective / destructive than a 7.62 x51 although I wonder what barrel life will be running at 80,000 psi, buffer spring location was impressive also allowing a folding stock. The only negative so far seemed to be weight also ammunition will be a lot heavier.

The rifle itself is based on the existing SIG MSX, which has been on the market since 2015 in 5.56mm.

The specs that I've seen for the ammunition are 8.8 g at 915 m/s or faster. By comparison 5.56mm is 4.15 g at 930 m/s (US M885 from 20 inch barrel). 7.62x51mm is 9.5 g at 850 m/s (US M80).

That gives the following muzzle energies:
6.8 SIG = 3684 j
5.56mm = 1795 j
7.62mm = 3432 j

So in terms of muzzle energy, 6.8 SIG is about 7 per cent greater than standard 7.62x51mm NATO.

You'll have to excuse me if I feel that the mountain hath groaned and brought forth a mouse.

 

[Steamboat]

From the sounds of it the ammunition being sold on the US civilian market for it is not the same as the ammunition available to the military. The civilian ammunition operates at a lower pressure and I expect uses a different bullet.

I won't be surprised if the military ammunition does not become available on the US civilian market due to concerns about how well the rifles will hold up at the higher pressures used. The military has much more closely controlled use and good follow up on failures compared to the civilian market and it would not surprise me if SIG aren't interested in touching the civilian market with a barge pole except with a reduced pressure round.

I also expect there would be a limited civilian market for what we can expect to be very expensive ammunition. I doubt it offers the civilian market anything that existing belted magnum rounds (such as 7mm magnum or .300 magnum) don't already, so why buy an even more niche cartridge?

Given enough time it will make its way to the Civ world, it always does.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/934039068

That is M855a1

 

[chuggafugga]

The following is a good video on the new US rifle. It's informative and worth watching.

They mention near the beginning of the video that the military ammunition runs at a much higher pressure than the civilian ammunition currently on the market and hence have higher muzzle energy. They also said that different civilian rounds themselves run at different pressures. This may answer the questions raised earlier about why some videos seem to show shooters experiencing different degrees of recoil.

At the start of the video they say they will compare two types of civilian ammunition and some military ammunition they had, but I don't recall them actually doing it in the video.

Their conclusion is they like the rifle from the perspective of a civilian sport shooter. However, they said that the weight of the rifle and it's ammunition cause them to question its practicality as a standard infantry rifle. Rather, they see it as more suitable as a replacement for 7.62x51mm for snipers and marksmen.

A conversation that's been done countless times, but why not simply switch ALL general use weapon systems to 7.62mm?

 

[Gone2ratshat]

A conversation that's been done countless times, but why not simply switch ALL general use weapon systems to 7.62mm?

Because the 6.8x51 is a more efficient cartridge, if they are going to cough up for new small arms it may as well be for ones that use the latest military cartridge , the 6.8x51 will also be suited for long range 1200m + sniper/sharpshooter rifles, the 308w/7.62 is seventy years old now.