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Us army ITT for new dmr a gpmg / lsw in 6.8

#21
I`ve not seen the dimensions for the new 6.8GP but I`d guess its compatible with the AR15 platform so they`ll only need to swap out barrels an AR15`s .
 
#22
I`ve not seen the dimensions for the new 6.8GP but I`d guess its compatible with the AR15 platform so they`ll only need to swap out barrels an AR15`s .
Probably but the request is for new guns that take 6.8. It will likely be another ar15 pattern like the 416 but they also want a gpmg / lsw so who knows.

We are at a plato in modern firearms design, there is not much more that can be done to take the concept forward other than make the ammo lighter, perhaps some sort of fin stabalised / sabo / smart projectiles.

Until we get rail guns sorted out, this is the area of development that is left to us.

Imo anyway
 
#23
Its not just 50bmg, the photo alone showz 3 different calibres.

Materials are the last area of development left on our current generation of weapons, it makes perfect sense that we lighren the ammo. I dont see where the resistance to the notion is comming from here
Showing 3 different rounds & having them at a point where they're safe & reliable enough for high intensity combat use are two different things.
Nobody's suggesting lightening ammunition isn't a good thing, only that we're still some way from meeting the safe & reliable criteria.
 
#24
The US Army have specified the 6.8 caliber and the 6.8GP rd but they have also left open an option of other cartridge designs to the companies that made the initial cut. Apparently that's why FN have offered 2 weapons and ammunition types. One is of a conventional 6.8 cartridge design the other supposedly a 6.8 CT design. It will be interesting to see what else the companies come back with on top of the 6.8 GP option.

Another interesting project is the Medium machine gun project their SOCOM have started with .338 Norma Magnum being the specified rd.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#25

ugly

LE
Moderator
#26
Another interesting project is the Medium machine gun project their SOCOM have started with .338 Norma Magnum being the specified rd.
about 5 years ago they built an upgraded GPMG using .300 win mag because .338 LM would require a new body. The drop in performance was deemed acceptable. Frankly I wouldn't want to be carrying 500 .338 link down the front of my smock tabbing up Onion Mountain again, bog standard was bad enough!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#27
What I'm trying to say is these ideas go round and around and around. I suspect that telescoping case ammo will be selected over polymer. Then we shall see if they have the minerals to take it forward to issue it to everyone.
 
#28
I don't disagree, I think part of the issue is the US military complex. The same outfit that forced 7.62 on the world and the M14 on themselves. If they jump from conventional munitions it would cause issues domestically and producing ammunition for the US military would take sometime to convert and achieve steady state with redundancy.
I think CT will be the next phase of small arms development but the likes of the 6.8SPC/GP will be the interim until the CT system is sorted and produces feasible service weapon and ammunition.
The MMG project I believe isn't about replacing the MAG/240 but providing a mid ground between the 7.62 and 12.7 options with a more mobile, accurate and longer ranged options. Looking at both the SIG and GD offerings, they are big guns even compared to an L7 so would likely be more and option for SFMG and vehicle mounted systems especially if they eventually have the 6.8 as a rifle/LMG option.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#29
You think that a massive armed forces like the US would as an interim measure ditch the two SAA it currently uses for another brace of calibres to last maybe 5 to 10 years whilst they go polymer/telescopic?
No, I dont, its just a way of funding research and keeping some people happy with projects that will never go anywhere. Whether the outcome is a brace of calibre changes or a change to ammunition as a whole in concept remains to be seen!
I can guarantee that we will not be throwing any money at it.
 
#30
I can guarantee that we will not be throwing any money at it.
I bet that goes for pretty much everyone apart from the US. Until the US commits to a COA and backs it up with the cash and the political will, 5.56 and 7.62 aren't going anywhere soon.
Even with the likes of the 6.5 CM. A fair few Military outfits have tested it as a 7.62 replacement for DMR's with good results. Not one of them will commit to it as a service caliber until its brought into the fold by US forces and becomes viable as a service nature.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#31
Well maybe, we did the work to get .338 Lm accepted in this country. Two blokes were involved, Pete Bloom was one of them, the other was my long range coach and stalking mucker. The work persuaded AI to build the rifle we now have. It was a long road but we definitely led the Nato countries on that one.
I suspect the concept of Stanag and common ammo specs/tolerances may son be a thing of the past. The US can adopt what they want as can pretty much any country with the money and will power. The point is that they cant guarantee stocks of ammo on joint nato ops. The cross in circle has already been proved a lie, Our .50's didn't work with the emergency ammo resupply because of the way they had been set up with soft mount, our 5.56 ball doesn't operate effectively in M4 carbines and US M855 doesn't reliably function in the L85A2. Ok for a panic magazine full but frankly no good, the US P mags didn't fit our rifles. Stanag is a bit of a farce.
The amount of money and opportunities wasted by the common round and rifle concept is horrendous.
 
#32
What I'm trying to say is these ideas go round and around and around. I suspect that telescoping case ammo will be selected over polymer. Then we shall see if they have the minerals to take it forward to issue it to everyone.
Out of curiosity, why do you think that case telescopic ammo will be the future over plastic cases? What makes you think / prefer CT?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#34
Out of curiosity, why do you think that case telescopic ammo will be the future over plastic cases? What makes you think / prefer CT?
I dont have any preference for either, I am waiting to see what comes out in the next round of SAA development. It could all become another flechette style failure or it could at best lead to future developments. Frankly the way the ammo feeds and extracts is of more interest to me. I am curious as to telescoping and how it works, the projectile is either embedded in propellant which must lose some energy trying to accelerate past the gasses in the chamber or its in a sabot or shot cup in which case we aren't going to save any space at all and chambers will get longer along with action lengths. Polymer cases have a long way to go, dont forget we were using them for NITAT training way back before plastic became a dirty word. Can you imagine cleaning up Sennybridge after a company attack?
 
#35
Well maybe, we did the work to get .338 Lm accepted in this country. Two blokes were involved, Pete Bloom was one of them, the other was my long range coach and stalking mucker. The work persuaded AI to build the rifle we now have. It was a long road but we definitely led the Nato countries on that one.
I suspect the concept of Stanag and common ammo specs/tolerances may son be a thing of the past. The US can adopt what they want as can pretty much any country with the money and will power. The point is that they cant guarantee stocks of ammo on joint nato ops. The cross in circle has already been proved a lie, Our .50's didn't work with the emergency ammo resupply because of the way they had been set up with soft mount, our 5.56 ball doesn't operate effectively in M4 carbines and US M855 doesn't reliably function in the L85A2. Ok for a panic magazine full but frankly no good, the US P mags didn't fit our rifles. Stanag is a bit of a farce.
The amount of money and opportunities wasted by the common round and rifle concept is horrendous.
Stanag has never really worked out as intended but I can't see NATO just dropping the idea altogether, standardisation should mean lower cost all round so it will be pursued until NATO collapses and is replaced by something else.

This seems to be why nobody else is daring to put a new calibre into their rifles, they have to wait until the US has done it first as the US, is by far the largest participant will do whatever they want above all other considerations and whatever they choose will be whatever everybody else has to use. So we all have to wait for them to adopt something and then try and catch up. It should not be very difficult to design a gun that can shoot some specific case type and loading weights, we just need to know what those metrics will be.

hence the interest in this recent request for new rifles and machine guns in 6.8 GP
 
#37
about 5 years ago they built an upgraded GPMG using .300 win mag because .338 LM would require a new body. The drop in performance was deemed acceptable. Frankly I wouldn't want to be carrying 500 .338 link down the front of my smock tabbing up Onion Mountain again, bog standard was bad enough!
No spare radio batteries ?

Seriously, why an MMG?
Chances are it will be fixed position or vehicle mounted, - lugging it and a decent load of ammo on foot will be emotional. And it adds new dependencies on the log chain.
That being the case, existing .50 cal is well man enough and both ammo and parts readily available.
Out of interest has anyone heard of a Browning .50 cal chambered for the Russian 12.7mm round ?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#38
hence the interest in this recent request for new rifles and machine guns in 6.8 GP
You do know that the cartridge in question is a slightly more modern 7mm in a slimmer case. The AR package can be adapted to any calibre/any round length. If the US changed the calibre then they should consider a slightly longer magazine or perhaps look at 140 grain bullets sat back deeper inside the case.
 

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LE
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#39

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#40

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