Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by jumpinjarhead, Oct 23, 2009.
The heart of the site is the forum area, including:
This is the official bid solicitation:
There's nothing wrong with the M4 / AR platform. And the HK416 piston driven uppers have their share of hang ups as well. Introducing a pistol caliber carbine may be a viable option but there's nothing cutting-edge about that tech. PCC's have been employed by the Army since the days of Custer. Heck, I personally saw Sheridan tankers from the 82nd toting .45 caliber grease guns as recently as Operation Blue Spoon.
Nah, I don't see much coming from this other than tweaking the M4 system a bit. The big stink in the news recently about M4 failures was nothing more than a smear piece. A failure to maintain specific weapons was the culprit. As with any weapon, the M4 is a solid performer when maintained properly.
We saw similar press releases littered with guesses, assumptions and predictions last year and the year prior. Nothing materialized.
I'm all for keeping the M4 / M16 in the hands of joe. Just like the 1911's enduring service, what's the point of fixing something that isn't broke?
I am mystified also at this "requirement." Smacks of some weapon producers pushing for a market perhaps. I am afraid I do not share your enthusiasm for the M16/M4 platform unless retrofitted with short stroke piston. I agree the SSP is not perfect either but I just do not like direct impingement systems and I also am no fan of the 5.56.
I would certainly not scoff at the implementation of the 6.8 SPC either. But that is not heading in the direction of the quoted article and their bias towards small(er) arms.
Nevertheless, these field tests and discussions are always interesting. We (the public) get to see new innovations and ideas from industry level competition.
Thanks for the post.
Agreed--I would not be at all surprised to learn HK had a role in this latest subcompact thing to sell its MP7. I shot the 6.5 Grendel and found it to be ok although I still prefer heavier calibers being of the old "well aimed shot" school that was not as concerned with how many rounds a rifleman could carry.
I think I'm having a deja-vu moment. This is what they came up with last time:
put a 10 inch barrel on an m4 job done.
They aren't looking for a pistol calbire weapon though.
They want a small weapon that can deliver a punch.
the above suggestion is a viable one, although I would imagine it would reduce the range and hitting power of the weapon.
What about this offering from HK.
folds down (in base form) to about 30cms. fires a 4.6mm round with mags of 20-60. As can be seen a fair bit can be added to it, although this would make a small weapon bulky. But can't see much wrong with a opical sight and a torch or laser spot. The 20 round mag pretty much sits inside the pistol grip.
It even comes with a holster that folds it up under the arm, running down to the waist... no more cam monsters!!! yay.
They can come in KH 'Navy' form with a saftey/selector on both sides, and the new ones are shipped with a Glock style safety trigger. They generally fire as single or full auto, but 3 rd burst is also available.
Having had a cabby I can say I liked the weapon. It is only rated at 200m but I think that has something to do with its PDW/armour piercing bits and bobs... it is certainly capable of going further accurately.
The Norwegians, Germans and (IIRC) the Dutch are bring this weapon in as a weapon for their Support Arms. The Germans are already patroling with it in Afghanistan. Bearing in mind that the Dutch have issued a fair few of their blokes with UZI 9mm for some time.
Various high readiness/fire arms police in UK, Ireland and Germany are now using it, and the first users were apparently the German SF. Indeed the MoD Police brought it in to replace the L85, MP9 AND Browning 9mm in one weapon.
All in all a good weapon IMHO. Couple it to the same calibre HK Ultimate Combat Pistol (basically a Glock derivitave by the look of it) with picatinny under the barrel and you have a two good weapon systems that can be easily resupped.
For longer range, and to satisfy the Americans craving for firepower , the trucks of the support arms could be fitted with GPMGs (7.62mm), HMGs (.50 cal) or GMGs (40mm). With tri-pods for ground mounting.
It's all very Buck Rogers with the sight. But yet another kind of ammo and a widgy baby brother to the 5.56mm at that?
The Russian PP-2000 is closer to a pistol replacement:
After all there is such a thing as armor piecing 9mm and it's compatible with pistols that a lot of soldiers will still cling to, even if most can't hit damned thing with them.
Or there's the Magpul PDR which last I heard was still in development. Offers Backward compatibility with AR-15/M16 magazines and ammunition.
What are all those cracks on the stock?
I agree wholeheartedly with your choice mate. A cracking weapon. I haven't seen the results of how well it performs in hot dusty environments, because it does have a habit of heating up a fair bit. It cetainly packs a punch for it's size.
MP7 Youtube clicky linky
In Development industry speak for vaporware.
I noticed at least 4 unused detents on the rails of this weapon--surely it needs some more ally kit--maybe a green laser to complement the red one or perhaps a 3X magnifier to enhance the optics. I cannot stand to see any rail unused. Soon it will be as cumbersome and heavy as the venerable BAR.
I picked that pic to demonstrate the versatility of the weapon. I doubt there would any real time need to fit that much kit to an MP7!! If there is... then I feel it is the wrong weapon for the task.
As noted, the weapons can get hot. But I haven't heard anything bad from the Germans I know. Bearing in mind that the same USN SEAL fella from the above youtube link fired something like 100 rounds through a HK 416 and could pop the bolt and hold it in his hands straight after!!!
If you want to stick with 5.56mm what about....
According to the wiki.
70cms long, 4.5Kg.
more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80#L22_carbine
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