US Air Force pilots get a new self defence take down rifle.

#81
Thing that scares me about the P90 is the posibility of shooting off a digit, me equipped with chimp arms and all. Even the G'lilon requires a bit of a think and careful hand placement to avoid getting a finger in front of the bangy shooty outy bit.

ETA:- The only thing needing doing on the G'lilon would be to open the stock, stick in a mag and cock. As Loofkar has mentioned, they're tough, reliable and most important proven in combat.
Quite surprised at your comment on the danger from the muzzle. I'm 184 cm and never encountered the idea - not in training, safety procedures etc. (as opposed to the Mini Uzi and Roni - with which it is a major issue)
 
#82
I'm 6'4" and have chimp arms. Used the FN-FAL/R1/SLR then the full size Galil in service. My natural stance has my forward hand placed quite a way up the stock, close to the bipod attachment point. Also, bear in mind the R4 had a longer forestock than the original Galil to cater for the larger Saffer physique.

That larger stance is not so great on the G'lilon/LM6 and I have to pay attention to what I'm doing or risk losing the tip of a finger. Came close a time or two on a three gun shoot.

LM6/M16 comparison.



R4 and Galil.


 
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#83
Y
I'm 6'4" and have chimp arms. Used the FN-FAL/R1/SLR then the full size Galil in service. My natural stance has my forward hand placed quite a way up the stock, close to the bipod attachment point. Also, bear in mind the R4 had a longer forestock than the original Galil to cater for the larger Saffer physique.

That larger stance is not so great on the G'lilon/LM6 and I have to pay attention to what I'm doing or risk losing the tip of a finger. Came close a time or two on a three gun shoot.

LM6/M16 comparison.



R4 and Galil.


I've always liked the look of the Galil. It always struck me as a well put together weapon.

Speaking of arms, you may have chimp ones, I've got mutant ones. My right arm is two inches longer than the left one. Made using the SA80 A1 rather more awkward than I would have liked.
 
#85
They were still floating around in the US system but more as a stop gap or close in protection weapon for crews. I wonder if their PDW/SMG project will eventually push them out of service.
This Funky But Innovative M16 Machine Pistol Was Made For The Bradley Fighting Vehicle
They are kind of like the modern M3 grease gun... a few of them stuck around forever in mech and near mech leg units.

The new hotness for SF will likely be a very close approximation of the "Honey Badger."
 
#86
I'm 6'4" and have chimp arms. Used the FN-FAL/R1/SLR then the full size Galil in service. My natural stance has my forward hand placed quite a way up the stock, close to the bipod attachment point. Also, bear in mind the R4 had a longer forestock than the original Galil to cater for the larger Saffer physique.

Well I guess a longer forestock must be better than no forestock......
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#87
Not nearly enough to equip the Luftwaffe, which raises the question, why and on whose orders?
They do appear in various auctions, complete kit cased drillings are slightly rate but they were usually (allegedly) issued to crew aircraft like bombers etc. Many more than 2500 were issued. That order may have been from one supplier and the Germans built many in different styles and different makers.
 
#89
Y
I've always liked the look of the Galil. It always struck me as a well put together weapon.
It was a delight to be issued with. I had regular Galils for two periods of 6 months and the shortened version for most of the rest of my 3 years. The only problem I found with the long version was that the bipod could open too easily - had to jam some rubber in between the flat part at the hinge-end to make it less liable to open during handling. The weight didn't bother me in those days and anyway I always preferred to carry extra mags (and grenades). After exposure to sea water we had to give the gat a good wash down in the shower before proper cleaning and oiling. The flash hider needed special attention against rust. Cleaning the piston was fun as we would push it into the ground (preferably sandy) and twist this way and that until all the carbon was rubbed off.
It felt like a real come-down to find the brigade I was assigned to in the reserves used the M16, but eventually came to appreciate its efficiency and light weight.
 
#90
Cleaning the piston was fun as we would push it into the ground (preferably sandy) and twist this way and that until all the carbon was rubbed off.
It's nice to see that some things are truly international. That's exactly the method we used in Brüggen and Laarbruch as the soil is very sandy along the border from Aachen up to Kleve. There was of course the proviso that we could not afford to get caught by the Rocks as although the method was very effective it was also very verboten.
The other method was to use vinegar. Had the added advantage you could pour it onto your chips afterwards.





No not really.
 
#91
It was a delight to be issued with. I had regular Galils for two periods of 6 months and the shortened version for most of the rest of my 3 years. The only problem I found with the long version was that the bipod could open too easily - had to jam some rubber in between the flat part at the hinge-end to make it less liable to open during handling. The weight didn't bother me in those days and anyway I always preferred to carry extra mags (and grenades). After exposure to sea water we had to give the gat a good wash down in the shower before proper cleaning and oiling. The flash hider needed special attention against rust. Cleaning the piston was fun as we would push it into the ground (preferably sandy) and twist this way and that until all the carbon was rubbed off.
It felt like a real come-down to find the brigade I was assigned to in the reserves used the M16, but eventually came to appreciate its efficiency and light weight.
Bottle opener on the bipod was good for lukewarm Fanta from the cuca shops. Only other time we used it was for placing the rifle on the ground during lectures, while setting up TB or having a meal, or other stuff to avoid getting sand and shit in it.

ETA:- Apparently the theory behind the bipod was use as a LSW if required, possibly with a 50rd panic mag.
 
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#92
It's nice to see that some things are truly international. That's exactly the method we used in Brüggen and Laarbruch as the soil is very sandy along the border from Aachen up to Kleve. There was of course the proviso that we could not afford to get caught by the Rocks as although the method was very effective it was also very verboten.
The other method was to use vinegar. Had the added advantage you could pour it onto your chips afterwards.
No not really.
The sand soil method was allowed in the IDF but what was verboten was using scotchbrite to erase rust - apparently that was to protect the blueing.

I forgot to add the wood foregrip of the regular Galil made for a handy pillow when you and yer muckers had to hang around.
 
#93
Bottle opener on the bipod was good for lukewarm Fanta from the cuca shops. Only other time we used it was for placing the rifle on the ground during lectures, while setting up TB or having a meal, or other stuff to avoid getting sand and shit in it.

ETA:- Apparently the theory behind the bipod was use as a LSW if required, possibly with a 50rd panic mag.
All in all didn't find much practical use for the bipod - for lectures and hanging around tended to rest the gat on my webbing vest - I seem to recall the bipod wasn't that stable. We didn't like using it for laying in ambush because you would have to think of folding it up - either quietly just prior to opening fire or when getting up to skirmish - easier just to do without it. Some people even removed the whole assembly.

In 3+20 years I only saw a 50 rnd mag once and its owner said they weren't considered that reliable. Two 35 rnd mags on a twin clip for M16 mags wrapped in Tesatape did the job. What a bloody good gun it was.......
 
#94
Yup. Good bit of kit. I liked the FN/R1 for the power it had but the Galil/R4 was reliable and did the job OK. Our early ones had a habit of cocking and chambering a round if handled a bit too roughly on parade but that was sorted out in a short while. Did basics with R1 then got issued the R4 up north and got the training on it. Early webbing was a bit shit as we were still trying to use the old R1 stuff but with longer magazine pouches until we got the chest webbing later.

Re the bipod, can't see any reason not to pick it up and run forward with the legs extended until you have a chance to pack them away. Our 50rd mags seemed to work OK. Just load them to 45 but they were a bit unwieldy TBQH. Couple of blokes issued them and there was a bit of a black market in trying to score one from the hot shot units. Didn't fit the webbing too well so easier to just use the 30rd jobbies.
 
#95
Our early ones had a habit of cocking and chambering a round if handled a bit too roughly on parade
Ha ha well I can now reveal the secret zionist method for avoiding that problem - just hardly parade at all and don't spend more than 1 or 2 mornings learning how to march in your entire 3 year conscript service. To this day I find it somewhat excruciating to see IDF attempts at "parading".

Funnily enough though, exactly the same issue existed in the M16A1 and I remember our surprise when it was demonstrated to us in safety training. It didn't even need slamming the butt into the ground, a sharp swing backwards was sufficient. Never encountered mention of the problem with the Galil though.

We also had webbing pouch flap issues at first because the Galil mags are longer than M16 ones.

Did you have bayonets for the R4 with a circular handle that fitted right over the end of the barrel? IDF doesn't fight with bayos. We only saw them once when they were isssued to the firing party for a comrade who died during basic. Someone on the staff had the bright idea of issuing rifle grenade launching cartridges instead of blanks - because 5.56 blanks make such an unimpressive sound. The upshot of it was that when we fired, several bayonets were inadvertently launched over the heads of the mourners on the other side of the grave, narrowly missing skewering people.
 
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#96
Yup, got the bayonets but mainly used for other stuff than waving at bad guys. I believe our paras were not issued them due to a couple of unsavoury incidents where blood was spilled in the bungalows.

Other one that was scary as hell was the Uzi cocking with a bump or just a swing. Having carried one during COIN training while humping radios and other shit, I still get a very twitchy sphincter when I see someone handling them, even in the movies.

We had a fair amount of drill but I think it was an hour or so daily in the initial two or three weeks of basic before heading for the training area. It's not the level of the Chinese or guards, apart from the SPs (state prez guard) who did a lot more of it, but we could generally find our way around the parade square without giving the RSM an aneurism.
 
#97
Yup, got the bayonets but mainly used for other stuff than waving at bad guys. I believe our paras were not issued them due to a couple of unsavoury incidents where blood was spilled in the bungalows.

Other one that was scary as hell was the Uzi cocking with a bump or just a swing. Having carried one during COIN training while humping radios and other shit, I still get a very twitchy sphincter when I see someone handling them, even in the movies.

We had a fair amount of drill but I think it was an hour or so daily in the initial two or three weeks of basic before heading for the training area. It's not the level of the Chinese or guards, apart from the SPs (state prez guard) who did a lot more of it, but we could generally find our way around the parade square without giving the RSM an aneurism.
having an Uzi in my collection, I concur fully with the need to be very respectful of the open bolt set up., not only in the situation you mention but also in clearing a double feed, a procedure that requires great care to perform safely.
 
#98
At the risk of further thread drift, the Sterling SMG being of the slam fire persuasion could be interesting at times.
The cocking handle which is slightly curved can be fitted arrse about face, which coupled with a bit of oil and cold fingers is a guarantee for an ND. This was amply demonstrated by a young officer standing next to me one cold winter morning. The SMG would therefore not be the ideal weapon for aircrew!
 

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#99
Ha ha well I can now reveal the secret zionist method for avoiding that problem - just hardly parade at all and don't spend more than 1 or 2 mornings learning how to march in your entire 3 year conscript service. To this day I find it somewhat excruciating to see IDF attempts at "parading".
As long as the IDF keeps the bad guys away, who cares about parading?
 
G'lilon. Simple, rugged (based on AK working parts) and packs up small ready for use in a moment. Three 50rd panic magazines as depicted, or 4 x 30rd magazines (better option IMO).

Can't see those rails being a good thing if you're not carrying the contents of a hardware store to dangle from them.

View attachment 392561
The under barrel Flammenwerfer looks a bit cack though.
 

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