us abuse goes to the top.

#1
found this on hackworth.com. the views of a us mil intel snco. very interesting indeed.


05-10-2004
Prison Abuse: An MI Officer Sounds Off



Hack,

The abuse and humiliation actually took place at 3 prisons in the Baghdad area. This was not done by accident, it was a planned, systematic way to break down the prisoners will to resist any interrogation, degrade them and then blackmail them into working for US Intelligence.

The pictures were taken as a way to intimidate the prisoner and then keep them working as low level collectors (if they did not the pictures would have been released to their family and tribes) Videos were also made as a way to record the "success" to be used as a teaching tool at Fort Huachuca (to train future interrogators). The MPs and Interrogators were told the Geneva Convention did not apply to Iraq Soldiers and Civilian Detainees. The methods the MPs used were actually taught to the MPs by military intelligence professionals and civilian contractors. This was a sanctioned operation and the methods were known to be used by Generals in the chain of command. Women MPs were sought out to further humiliate the Iraqi prisoners. The female MPs who accepted the jobs, conducted degrading acts upon the Iraq men, because such acts by women on men in the Arab culture are so humiliating, it was thought that the men would then talk just to stop the abuse by the female MPs. This abuse was done in stages and the less cooperative Iraqis were given the more degrading abuse to condition them to interrogation. The Major General (Barbara Fast) in charge of the MI personnel in Baghdad sanctioned this treatment.

Hack, if they are going to hang privates and NCOs for meting out this abuse, they better go after the Generals and Colonels who sanctioned and approved these methods be use. This is a not an isolated cace of abuse my a few soldiers, this was a planned campaign well know by the entire chain of command. There is also evidence that people in the Pentagon also knew and approved of these methods many months prior to the pictures being relased and only told the President when the pictures were published.

The DOD is now trying to pin the blame on anything else, other than the Generals amd Colonels who sanctioned this treatment.

MI Senior NCO
 
#3
Slightly bizarre viewpoint, but it makes you wonder how many other supposedly rationale people out there believe this: http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/

I love the fact that it's tagline is 'The Best Opinions and Advise in the Universe' :D

A little taster:

AN ARMY OF SCUM

Or, We're Looking For a Few Good Homosexual Rapists

NEW YORK--Now it's official: American troops occupying Iraq have become virtually indistinguishable from the SS. Like the Germans during World War II, they cordon off and bomb civilian villages to retaliate for guerilla attacks on their convoys. Like the blackshirts who terrorized Europe, America's victims disappear into hellish prisons ruled by sadists and murderers. The U.S. military is short just one item to achieve moral parity with the Nazis: gas chambers.
Does Piers Morgan run this site?
 
#4
Apologies - another deranged chap and his views: http://www.whitetown.co.uk/jyoti/view.php?id=000334

UK troops are in a foreign country, full of people they've been brainwashed to hate, taught to see as filthy Muslim terrorists. The racism in the British Army is well known to be as endemic as that in the British police force. Of course, I'm not saying all soldiers are evil racists, just the same as all police officers aren't. There are a few good apples in every rotten barrel. But that's the culture of those organisations, rotten.

So...take your average racist thug. Give him a rifle and a uniform. Send him to a country full of brown people he hates the sight of. Let him shoot women, children, babies, anyone he wants to, dead. With absolutely no ramifications. In fact, give him a ****ing medal if he kills enough of them, if he's a "hero."

Are you truly surprised that he ends up a Nazi, a torturer?
 
#6
The_Sloping_Wire said:
Apologies - another deranged chap and his views: http://www.whitetown.co.uk/jyoti/view.php?id=000334

UK troops are in a foreign country, full of people they've been brainwashed to hate, taught to see as filthy Muslim terrorists. The racism in the British Army is well known to be as endemic as that in the British police force. Of course, I'm not saying all soldiers are evil racists, just the same as all police officers aren't. There are a few good apples in every rotten barrel. But that's the culture of those organisations, rotten.

So...take your average racist thug. Give him a rifle and a uniform. Send him to a country full of brown people he hates the sight of. Let him shoot women, children, babies, anyone he wants to, dead. With absolutely no ramifications. In fact, give him a * medal if he kills enough of them, if he's a "hero."

Are you truly surprised that he ends up a Nazi, a torturer?
Anybody who might care to discuss this 'interesting point of view' will find his website forum HERE.
 
#7
This is what happens when democracy and free speech are taken for granted. These arrseholes tainted views of the world come from the chips on thier shoulders massaged by the PC brigade of our "New Labour" idiots.

It has been 60 years since our freedom of speech and democracy was under threat and people have this tainted view that everything in the world can be solved with dialogue and appeasement. Didn't work in 1939, can't see OBL sitting down for a tete a tete with the lefty brigade over cucumber sannies and tea. :roll:

Still as long as they just rant on the web and don't get into government.
Christ, they already are! :evil:
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#9
quiller said:
The DOD is now trying to pin the blame on anything else, other than the Generals amd Colonels who sanctioned this treatment.
MI Senior NCO
Guess what, it is the US Congress that should hang along with its racist policies in giving ultra Chicken Hawk GW Bush the green light to attack Iraq in the first place.

Ron Paul, US Representative from the ChickenHawk's home state Texas has had it right all along. I would suggest you all read his comments which are usually published first on the floor of the US House. Here is one of his latest that speaks to this current affair: http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=2542
Passing the Buck in Iraq
by Rep. Ron Paul
The allegations of prisoner torture by our troops in Iraq are disturbing, and clearly drastic action must be taken to ensure such conduct stops immediately. But why are we condemning a small group of low-level reservists when we do not yet know the full story? As revolting as the pictures are, we cannot know with certainty what took place in Iraq's prisons based on a few photographs. We do not and cannot know the full story at this point, yet we jump to condemn those who have not even had the benefit of a trial. We appear to be operating on the principle of guilty until proven innocent. It seems convenient and perhaps politically expedient to blame a small group of "bad apples" for what may well turn out to be something completely different – as the continuously widening investigation suggests.

Some of the soldiers in the photographs claim their superior officers and civilian contractors in charge of the interrogations forced them to pose for photos. We have heard that some soldiers put in charge of prisons in Iraq were woefully unprepared for the task at hand. We have heard they were thrown into a terribly confusing, stressful, and dangerous situation with little training and little understanding of the rules and responsibilities. What additional stresses and psychological pressures were applied by those in charge of interrogations? We don't know. Does this excuse reprehensible behavior? Not in the slightest, but it does suggest we need to get all the facts before drawing conclusions. It is disturbing that little mention is made of the scores of civilian contractors operating in these prisons who may have been the instigators of abuse.

Our current presence in Iraq is nothing more than a nation-building exercise, despite the justifications given before the war. Nation building is an inherently dirty and difficult task, one that our military forces are not trained to perform. Endless occupation of a dangerous and resentful nation is not part of a soldier's job description. We should condemn unequivocally any soldiers who are found guilty of torturing prisoners, but surely we must also condemn those who put those soldiers into such a rotten situation in the first place.

Members of Congress decry the fact that the administration did not inform us of these abuses and purposely kept Congress out of the information loop. Yet Congress made it clear to the administration from the very beginning that it wanted no responsibility for the war in Iraq. If Congress wanted to be kept in the loop it should have vigorously exercised its responsibilities. This means, first and foremost, that Congress should have voted on a declaration of war as required by the Constitution. Congress, after abandoning this responsibility in October 2002, now complains it is in the dark. Who is to say the legal ambiguity created by the congressional refusal to declare war may not have contributed to the mentality that prisoners need not be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention? Until Congress takes up its constitutional responsibilities, complaints that the administration is not sufficiently forthcoming with information ring hollow.

Congress has the power – and the obligation – to keep itself better informed. Congress should hold hearings on the torture allegations, exercising its subpoena power if necessary. Demanding that the administration investigate the matter is simply another example of Congress passing the buck. That's what got us into trouble in the first place.
 
#10
This is what jyoti thinks when his racism and onesidedness is pointed out to him:

posted by: Jyoti Mishra (12 May 2004)
Sadly, Keyvan's had to shut the forum down for a bit cos of streams of incoherent pro-torture abuse posted by some racist troll. Ah well...

Keep your heads up, peeps! There's a lot of weird people out there who only view certain people as human.

What jyoti means is b*gger, I've had my anti US & UK garbage posted on my forum, I don't want to admit that the execution is terrible so I'll lock the forum so no one can post. Freedom of speech goes out the window.

www.whitetown.co.u add a k to the url.

jyoti also has his home site which is full of left wing anti West c*ap

http://www.bzangygroink.co.u again add a k to the url



The information I've posted is publicly available within a couple of clicks of the mouse.
----------------------------------------------------------------

It probably is, and people can look for it for themselves Armourer.

I was once a member of a Website, where a member was pinged for what was alleged to be Grave robbing.

A comment was posted , that according to 192.com , only one person with that name in that town.

The next thing that happened, was some bright young thing offered to burn his house down with him in it. There were rather a lot of calls in the same vein. His solicitors were called in, and the Website was CLOSED . Reason given was that posting the clue to his identity was "Incitement to commit a Criminal Act"

Packard, if you're around , you know the board I'm talking about.

Yes it was really reaching, but the ISP pulled the plug.

So, no names, no pack drill please fellers.

PTP
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#12
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Toronto/Eric_Margolis/2004/05/09/452554.html
Sun, May 9, 2004

Sadism in war old habit

By Eric Margolis -- Contributing Foreign Editor


JUST AS the Vietnam War was personified by a photo of a terrified, naked girl fleeing a blast of napalm, so George Bush's "liberation" of Iraq will inevitably be remembered by the horrifying photo of a hooded prisoner standing on a box with electric cables attached to his fingers.

Americans are reeling in disgust at the torture, abuse and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison by U.S. soldiers. Their revulsion is genuine: Americans are a decent, humane people who believe themselves well above such medieval abominations.

But they should not be surprised their soldiers and intelligence agents are using torture and sexual humiliations to break the will of Iraqis to resist American occupation. That is the nature of colonial warfare and so-called "war of terror."


In August 2003, this column warned about Iraq: "Protracted guerrilla warfare eventually turns even the best-disciplined troops into brutes, and corrupts entire governments." Colonial troops in Kenya, Algeria, Angola, Mozambique, Palestine, Indochina, Kashmir, Timor, Aceh, and Chechnya all became infected with brutality and sadism.

Americans, in spite of their deep respect for law and human rights, are not immune to such corruption. During the 1900-1904 conquest of the Philippines, U.S. forces killed 50,000-100,000 Muslim civilians. Few recall that U.S. forces in Vietnam threw prisoners from helicopters, burned them alive with white phosphorus, or wiped out entire villages without a second thought. The communist enemy was even more merciless.

Demoralized soldiers

That was the nature of counter-insurgency warfare fought among a hostile civilian population by demoralized American soldiers who knew the war was lost.

During the invasion of Afghanistan, America ignored evidence U.S. Special Forces troops had watched -- or even participated -- in the massacre of 3,000 Taliban prisoners by communist Northern Alliance soldiers.

Persistent reports of prisoners being tortured by U.S. captors in Iraq, Afghanistan, Diego Garcia, Jordan, Egypt and Guantanamo were also been ignored -- until the Abu Ghraib outrage. Now, we learn of a ghastly new apparition: Free-enterprise torturers known, in Pentagon Orwell-speak, as "civilian interrogation contractors."

When this writer stated last year on American network TV that the U.S. was using torture against terrorism suspects, he was quickly cut off the air.

Three years ago, this column wrote about Gen. Paul Aussaresses, a former senior French intelligence officer who battled Algeria's FLN rebels during the late 1950s. The one-eyed general boasted in a recent book how he brutally tortured and murdered many FLN leaders during the murderous Battle of Algiers. French officers who served under Aussaresses in the "pacification" of Algeria would later say they had been more savage and sadistic than the Gestapo during World War II.

Savage, sadistic

The pictures of gloating U.S. soldiers posing over piled-up, naked Iraqi prisoners recalls Soviet gulag guards who called prisoners "logs." They also conjure nightmare images of terrified Jewish prisoners herded by Nazi SS guards, and cowering Bosnian Muslim captives about to be murdered by laughing Serb soldiers.

But don't believe the torture and abuse in Iraq was solely the work of a few cretinous hillbillies and miscreants, as the Pentagon is claiming.

The process of inflicting pain, humiliation, and degradation on captives -- dehumanizing them -- has been perfected by CIA psychologists and psychiatrists. These tortures, based on Israeli techniques, were designed more to break Iraqis' will than to elicit information. The sexual humiliations were designed to inflict maximum mental punishment on Muslims.

For U.S. occupiers of Iraq, dreaded Abu Ghraib plays the same role it did under Saddam Hussein: Terrifying the population into docility. The U.S. now may hold more Iraqi prisoners -- up to 20,000 -- than did Saddam's prisons.

After last week's revelations from Abu Ghraib, the only people likely to still believe President George Bush's claims to be fighting in Iraq for "freedom and democracy" will be brain-numbed American TV viewers.
Not to mention some Brits . . .

"If Blair is Bush's poodle then Bush is Sharon's bitch." - Ensign Flag Parker
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#14
spank_the_monkey said:
Generalquarters:

Wise men make proverbs, but fools repeat them
Ensign Flag Parker is my creation, as are his quotes therefore I will take your proverb, the one you foolishly repeated, as a compliment.
"Forbare torment of the fool who bears proverbs of the wise." (Don't shoot the messenger - :wink:) - Ensign Flag Parker
 

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